Flu Vac, should it be mandatory

MunoRN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/services/boards/Documents/DeclinationFluVaccine.pdf
Wow, so many of you with the put up with it or else position.
Take it or work elsewhere...
So eager to get your shot and make damn sure everyone around you gets it too. You have no clue what is in the vaccine. You didn't grow it. You didn't extract the antigen. Didn't label it, Didn't package it...Sooooo very trusting that you're receiving what they say is in the vial.
Oh, but coming soon to an ER near you: An UN-immunized nurse that could care less what you think should or shouldn't be mandatory. I decline once again...
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/services/boards/Documents/DeclinationFluVaccine.pdf

What is it you think is in the vial that "they" aren't telling you about? Who is "they"?

Personally if someone tells me something is "mandatory", that automatically puts me on the side of not doing it just to make a point, even if it's something I would have done anyway, so I can understand the concerns about making anything "mandatory". Yet I don't think it's appropriate to make a point at the expense of patients.

I've cared for a patient in her 30's who died as a result of hospital acquired viral pneumonia that swabbed positive for influenza. This was most likely transmitted to her by hospital staff as she had a private room and no visitors prior to culturing positive for the flu which was more than a week after she was admitted. (She was here visiting and her family was on the other side of the country). Would you really feel comfortable telling her husband, parents, and young children that you knowingly put her at risk to make a point about autonomy?

MN-Nurse, ASN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

I work for a facility that is thinking about making the Flu vaccine mandatory in order to work. I personally do not like this idea. I have never gotten the Flu, Pneumonia, or H1N1 for myself or my family. I think that this kind of act is forceful against my free will. It should be my decision not anyone elses. Any thoughts?

No one is forcing you to work anywhere. Neither is anyone forcing you to clear up your obvious confusion about why you get vaccinated.

Woodenpug, BSN · Sep 28, 2011

Yeah, all this about mandatory flu vaccinations. What about PPD? Even those who have taken the BCG are required to show a positive test. Then, once a positive test is documented.... every three to five years (depending on policy) they get a CXR. As to useless, PPD is the granddaddy. If you've seen the welts caused by a positive test, you'd know how cruel is that policy. Why not have all of us sign a statement that we are asymptomatic and then get CXR's every three to five years? Why do we have such a problem with Flu Vac.?

uhhuhyeah · Sep 28, 2011

while they're at it, just make us wear a scarlet letter or a star on our shoulder to separate us. it's for the greater good, comrades.

pumpkinseeds · Sep 28, 2011

When I lived in Austin, both hospital chains were requiring the flu shot. I had no objection to getting it, but it was how they presented it - you WILL get the flu shot, or you WILL wear a mask, and if we catch you without the mask you WILL be FIRED. They presented it with this floofy statement about how all they cared about was our health and not getting others sicks. Please. I've been so ill, so obviously sneezy contagious, I looked worse than my patients, and I was never told to go home. In fact, in my compliant baby nurse days, when I did hint that I wanted to leave I was told I couldn't. They don't care if we're sick, as long as we drag ourselves to work and be productive. The mandatory flu shot thing is so they can post hallway signs and fool the general public into thinking patient are was their first concern. Higher ups, by the way, were exempt from the flu shot requirement.

Anyway, last year a nurse took one for the team and refused the flu shot and refused the mask. When they fired her, she sued them stating that her Hipaa rights were being violated. Don't know how that one played out.

StrwbryblndRN · Sep 28, 2011

Many posts keeps on saying how getting the vaccine will prevent the spread.

The vaccine does not cover all flu strains.

Many nurses still got a nasty bout of flu even with the vaccine. They were just as bad as the nurses who got the flu without it. (i might add too, that many nurses did not get the vaccine and did not get the flu)

I am for the mask wearing for those who do not wish to get the vaccine. But please refrain from saying I am irresponsible for my choice.

I have never in 40 years of my life ever had the flu, nor have i had the flu shot.

I do get strep yearly though :)

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

Really? Again with another thread like this? You do have free will and you do have autonomy. Your choice is to not get the vaccine and go work somewhere else. You are not being strapped down and forcefully injected.

To the OP....a very well beaten horse.......a link for here so you can see what people have said.:)

https://allnurses.com/gsearch.php?cx=partner-pub-9350112648257122%3Avaz70l-mgo9&cof=DIV%3Acacaca%3BBGC%3AF8F7F5%3BFORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&as_q=mandatory+flu+vCCINES&sa=Search#1639

Some facilities are threatening termination if Vaccine refused...

http://bdtonline.com/local/x1173958458/PCH-staff-required-to-take-influenza-vaccine

http://www.wbay.com/story/15499533/2011/09/19/hospitals-making-flu-vaccine-mandatory-for-employees

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/twenty_percent_of_workers_at_m.html

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/09/14/boston_hospitals_require_workers_to_get_flu_shots/

http://news.google.com/news/more?q=mandatory+flu+vaccinations+boston+ma+hospitals&hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_enUS413&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1262&bih=600&wrapid=tlif131720888472610&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=di6mB7m7_4UCF-MLSohZQoFUD5WdM&ei=VgODTvLrKebi0QGZ6tWdAQ&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CDIQqgIwAA

Where whould they go to get a job if all hospitals are mandating the vaccine? I thought this was America....I thought we were free.... :mad:

Double-Helix, BSN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

I got the flu shot for the first time this year. I work in Peds ICU and the only reason I got it is to protect the little ones that I work with. Flu could literally kill some of our Hem-Onc patients or already sick and weak RSV babies.

But that being said, it's not mandatory in my hospital and I don't think it should be. Many of our older nurses don't get the flu shot because they just don't believe in the effectiveness and they have probably been exposed to far more viruses than are contained in the flu shot. There is no negative consequence if you don't get the flu shot, expect that you have to sign a declination form. The positive incentive is you get a nice yellow button that says you got the flu shot. I do think it makes parents more comfortable to know that their nurses are protected against the flu (even if we aren't protected against every flu virus).

But I don't think it should be mandatory. Highly recommended, sure. But some of our best nurses are ones who refused the shot. They should not be out of a job for sticking to their beliefs.

FLmomof5 · Sep 28, 2011

Bottom line: This is the USA. We are SUPPOSED to have the right to make our own decisions regarding our lives. That was the way it was until the government decided to start crossing the line by saying essentially that they had the right to protect others from us selfish citizens or we had to protect those who could not make that decision for themselves (babies with all those required vaccinations).

For the vacc of children, we forced parents to provide proof of them to enroll in school. We do have 'opt out' procedures, but they are burdensome and parents that choose the no vaccine option are harrassed year after year. (No I am not one of them.)

The hospital first said that smokers could not smoke in the building. OK get that. Then you can't smoke on the grounds....now Baylor has crossed the line into we won't even hire you.

Your issue is the the requirement for the flu shot.

When we began allowing the erosion of our right to choose for ourselves, we started this train rolling. Until we, unitedly, call for a stop to ALL erosions to personal choice, this will only continue. We are now seeing "wellness" programs in work places....if you don't participate, they charge you $. Soon you will see employers and the government tell us what we can eat and how much to exercise everyday....it is already happening in the schools thanks to Michelle Obama.

We will either stand up and say enough!....or let gubmint take over our lives.

BTW, in the interest of disclosure....I do take the flu shot. It is a dead virus. It can't hurt me but for a millisecond. But that is my CHOICE.

MN-Nurse, ASN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

So eager to get your shot and make damn sure everyone around you gets it too. You have no clue what is in the vaccine. You didn't grow it. You didn't extract the antigen. Didn't label it, Didn't package it...Sooooo very trusting that you're receiving what they say is in the vial.

So you only take (or give for that matter) medications you grew, labeled and packaged? Really. More likely, you just pick vaccines as the intervention that rises to the standard of "you must have grown it to trust it."

"Oh, but coming soon to an ER near you: An UN-immunized nurse that could care less what you think should or shouldn't be mandatory. I decline once again..."

This is why more employers are making it mandatory.

MN-Nurse, ASN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

Bottom line: This is the USA. We are SUPPOSED to have the right to make our own decisions regarding our lives. That was the way it was until the government decided to start crossing the line by saying essentially that they had the right to protect others from us selfish citizens or we had to protect those who could not make that decision for themselves (babies with all those required vaccinations).
We will either stand up and say enough!....or let gubmint take over our lives.

Babies are vaccinated because we as a society (us, not the boogyman "gubmint") got tired of counting dead babies. And they are dreadfully easy to count.

Why is it that every "right" in your slippery slope argument includes a right to participate in detrimental behaviors that were either harmful to others (to the point of killing them) or increased costs to the rest of society?

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

Babies are vaccinated because we as a society (us, not the boogeyman "gubmint") got tired of counting dead babies. And they are dreadfully easy to count.
Why is it that every "right" in your slippery slope argument includes a right to participate in detrimental behaviors that were either harmful to others (to the point of killing them) or increased costs to the rest of society?

I have the right to say no and not be brow beaten. I have the right to say no and be forced to not have a "flu sticker" marking me as an outcast or non conformist, just like having to wear a scarlet letter back in colonial days, just to FORCE me conform because someone else.......IN THEIR OPINION, thinks I should.

I am not against vaccinations. I vaccinate my kids. I am vaccinated against what I believe are still "dangerous" diseases to modern medicine. Frankly I would rather be vaccinated against small pox again because of all the missing small pox virus still missing from Russia that is weaponized than be vaccinated against the flu.........

A flu that may or may not be the flu, or groups of flu's, that was "guessed" to be circulating that season...... that I may or may not catch and become ill from..... that I may or may not become sick enough to become hospitalized.......... and If I get sick enough to be hospitalized.......I may or may not get sick enough to be critical.....and IF I get sick enough to be critical....I may or may not die..... :confused:

For people my age, especially nurses my age, the efficacy and safety of the flu vaccine, has never been proven. In fact......we were ASSURED that the "Swine Flu" vaccine was safe back kin the 1980's when the vaccine proved to be unsafe and the Governments answer was..... oops......we're sorry!!!

In a memo prepared for his superiors at the Department of Health, Education and Welfare (HEW), David Sencer, head of the CDC, talked about the "strong possibility" of a swine flu epidemic. Later, HEW's general counsel commented that "the chances seem to be 1 in 2." A memo from the HEW secretary to the head of the Office of Management and Budget noted that "the projections are that this virus will kill one million Americans in 1976."

A few experts suggested the vaccine be made and stockpiled but used only if there was more evidence of an epidemic. This was considered but rejected early on. The argument was that the influenza vaccine had few, if any, serious side effects, and that it would be far easier (and more defensible) to get it into people's bodies before people started dying.

On March 24, President Gerald Ford announced on television that he was asking Congress for $135 million "to inoculate every man, woman and child in the United States" against swine flu.

Over the next nine months, very little went right -- or as planned.

Pharmaceutical companies undertook crash programs to make enough of the vaccine by the start of flu season in October. But it turned out the Fort Dix bug grew poorly in chicken eggs, the growth medium for the influenza virus. This meant that yields were going to be about half of what was planned. In addition, one company used the wrong virus and had to start over.

The insurance industry announced it wouldn't insure manufacturers against liability arising from the vaccine. An act of Congress shifted most of the liability to the government.

Studies of Fort Dix's soldiers showed that about 500 had been infected with swine flu. But with only one death, this called into question the deadliness of the strain. In addition, swine flu didn't appear that summer in the Southern Hemisphere, as would be expected if a pandemic were starting.

Tests showed that single injections of some vaccine formulations didn't protect children. This required time-consuming studies of a two-shot regimen. Which never happened.

Albert Sabin, the father of the oral polio vaccine and a high-profile advocate, broke with the party line and called for stockpiling, but not immediate use, of the vaccine.

Three elderly people in Pittsburgh died on the same day within hours of getting swine flu shots. It was a chance event, but just the sort of guilt by association that arises whenever a public health intervention is done on a mass scale.

What killed the program, though, was the observation in early December that people given the swine flu vaccine had an increased risk of developing Guillain-Barre syndrome, a rare, usually reversible but occasionally fatal form of paralysis. Research showed that while the actual risk for Guillain-Barre was only about 1 in 1,000 among people who had received the vaccine, that was about seven times higher than for people who didn't get the shot.

On Dec. 16, the swine flu vaccine campaign was halted. About 45 million people had been immunized. The federal government eventually paid out $90 million in damages to people who developed Guillain-Barre. The total bill for the program was more than $400 million.

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/shotinthedark.html

Obviously....... :grn:it wasn't safe......... people were dying and being paralyzed/permanently disabled from a vaccine supposed to protect us from an influenza, one that we were GUARENTEED was safe:uhoh3:, that may or may not make me sick and may or may not make me critically ill and may or may not kill me even IF I get sick. If that particular strain of influenza is present during the flu season.

Hmmm.......and they want me to trust them NOW? :hdvwl: Really? :confused: I don't think so..... :cool:

The following is a list of some of the very nasty side effects that todays "inactivated" vaccine package insert admits to.....

*Local injection site reactions (including pain, pain limiting limb movement, redness, swelling, warmth, ecchymosis, induration)

*Hot flashes/flushes

*Chills

*Fever

*Malaise

*Shivering

*Fatigue

*Asthenia

*Facial edema.

*Immune system disorders

*Hypersensitivity reactions (including throat and/or mouth edema)

*In rare cases, hypersensitivity reactions have lead to anaphylactic shock and death

*Cardiovascular disorders

*Vasculitis (in rare cases with transient renal involvement)

*Syncope shortly after vaccination

*Digestive disorders

*Diarrhea

*Nausea

*Vomiting

*Abdominal pain.

*Blood and lymphatic disorders

*Local lymphadenopathy

*Transient thrombocytopenia.

*Metabolic and nutritional disorders

*Loss of appetite.

*Arthralgia

*Myalgia

*Myasthenia

*Nervous system disorders

*Headache

*Dizziness

*Neuralgia

*Paraesthesia

*Febrile convulsions

*Guillain-Barré Syndrome

*Myelitis (including encephalomyelitis and transverse myelitis)

*Neuropathy (including neuritis)

*Paralysis (including Bell's Palsy)

*Respiratory disorders

*Dyspnea

*Chest pain

*Cough

*Pharyngitis

*Rhinitis

*Stevens-Johnson syndrome

*Pruritus

*Urticaria

*Rash (including non-specific, maculopapular, and vesiculobullous

I should have the right to say NO!