Flu Vac, should it be mandatory

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I work for a facility that is thinking about making the Flu vaccine mandatory in order to work. I personally do not like this idea. I have never gotten the Flu, Pneumonia, or H1N1 for myself or my family. I think that this kind of act is forceful against my free will. It should be my decision not anyone elses. Any thoughts?

Babies are vaccinated because we as a society (us, not the boogyman "gubmint") got tired of counting dead babies. And they are dreadfully easy to count.

Why is it that every "right" in your slippery slope argument includes a right to participate in detrimental behaviors that were either harmful to others (to the point of killing them) or increased costs to the rest of society?

Here is the hot button of them allllllll....Your argument then begets the ability to deny hiring to obese nurses. And I believe that there are enough threads on AN that I won't delineate again here. Then we will now test nurses for the metabolites for alcohol to make sure they don't drink. We will remove children from the custody of their parents because they are obese. Obviously, mommy and daddy didn't care enough about Jrs health.

Careful where you tread. Too many in this country are treading on our basic freedoms under the guise of "for the better good"....."1984" anyone?

The whole point is not WHY they should do this. It, in this country, is why they should NOT be allowed to.

As the pp points out....THIS YEAR's flu shot does NOT guarantee that I won't get a different strain. It won't guarantee the safety of my patients if I get a different strain. If I don't want the shot, I shouldn't have to take it or wear a sticker. Many nurses may get the shot to be compliant, because they want the shot, because they don't want to be 'scarlet lettered' with a colored sticker, or wear a mask. The reality is, the pt may have a different strain of flu and the RN not wearing a mask may STILL get the flu from that patient. A mask would protect us all better than the flu shot. There isn't a compelling enough argument for it.

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Unfortunately, in this current economy, employers have much more power over their employees than in the past. There are a wealth of people in every field that are unemployed and willing to take a job. Companies are able to make demands of their employees today that they couldn't have gotten away with in 2005. If a nurse with 15 years experience and a family of five on a health insurance plan provided by the employer decides not to abide by the guidelines set forth by the facility, he or she can be replaced in a day by a 22 year old new grad BSN with starting pay and only one, young adult on a health care plan. Everyone is replaceable in this economy, like it or not, and often at a discount. My advice would be to get the flu shot and get used to getting it every year, because once the big facilities require it, all will in the next year or two.

Also, I understand the need for autonomy, but there also is a need for the "greater good". If implementing required flu shots saves 50 lives in a year, isn't it worth it? It might be your child, your spouse, or even your grandma that lives.

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Specializes in Med Surg - Renal.
I have the right to say no and not be brow beaten. I have the right to say no and be forced to not have a "flu sticker" marking me as an outcast or non conformist.

None of the above are actually "rights" any more than I have the "right" to not be subjected to anti-vaccine rhetoric.

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Specializes in ED.

from flmomof5"soon you will see employers and the government tell us what we can eat and how much to exercise everyday....it is already happening in the schools thanks to michelle obama."

ummm isn't this just long overdue and much needed education? not mandating specific foods or exercise on anyone.

and if it is changing the lunch menu in public schools from fried calorie dense/nutrient poor foods to a healthier balance of carbs.prot, fats etc,. you really see that as a bad thing? as a slippery slope? where were you when school kitchens became most concerned with profits and started serving foods that only need a can opener or a box cutter to prepare? that didn't concern you?

education does not take away freedom of choice! in fact it is the only thing that allows for true informed choice and freedom. and whether it's michelle obama spreading the word that diet and exercise matter to children's health or laura bush spreading the word that reading and literacy are essential and important - it is all good and will help advance society and give over-fed under-exercised and illiterate children a different vision of themselves and their potential. seriously!

so yes "thanks to michelle obama." i agree, thank you michelle. i really hope to see fewer obese 9 year olds with type ii diabetes and orthopedic knee problems - obviously their parents need education too.

education, not mandates.

if after being fully informed of the effects of diet and exercise on your child's future health you choose to continue with the big macs and the x-box till that child is 18 - in this country no one will stop your disastrous mission to derail your child's future health!

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i agree with having mandatory flu shots, unless you are allergic to eggs or have a contraindication to the shot.

i really am getting sick and tired of this whole argument. for those who are arguing "we don't know what they put in the vials", if you really feel that way, don't you ever give any patient anything you didn't personally oversee, otherwise, what a hypocrite you are. now i know that isn't the issue for most, but that comment really ticked me off!

the flu shot does not protect against all strains, but it protects against quite a few. it is our jobs as nurses to protect and advocate for our patients. don't do it for yourself, do it for your patients. it may save their life.

for those of you who have "never had the flu or flu shot in your life", congrats! but there is a first time for everything. we need to get off our high horses. i truly believe that most facilities are making this rule not to attack our "rights to autonomy" but to protect the patients they are serving. don't we owe our patients that much?

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from flmomof5"soon you will see employers and the government tell us what we can eat and how much to exercise everyday....it is already happening in the schools thanks to michelle obama."

ummm isn't this just long overdue and much needed education? not mandating specific foods or exercise on anyone.

and if it is changing the lunch menu in public schools from fried calorie dense/nutrient poor foods to a healthier balance of carbs.prot, fats etc,. you really see that as a bad thing? as a slippery slope? where were you when school kitchens became most concerned with profits and started serving foods that only need a can opener or a box cutter to prepare? that didn't concern you?

education does not take away freedom of choice! in fact it is the only thing that allows for true informed choice and freedom. and whether it's michelle obama spreading the word that diet and exercise matter to children's health or laura bush spreading the word that reading and literacy are essential and important - it is all good and will help advance society and give over-fed under-exercised and illiterate children a different vision of themselves and their potential. seriously!

so yes "thanks to michelle obama." i agree, thank you michelle. i really hope to see fewer obese 9 year olds with type ii diabetes and orthopedic knee problems - obviously their parents need education too.

education, not mandates.

if after being fully informed of the effects of diet and exercise on your child's future health you choose to continue with the big macs and the x-box till that child is 18 - in this country no one will stop your disastrous mission to derail your child's future health!

actually, she has changed the menus at the schools to disallow 'unhealthy' choices. there is no education there..just no choice forced by the government.

btw, my children are grown. they served and are serving their country in 3 of 4 services. they are healthy. they eat anything they want....but their choices were fruits over candy and milk over soda.

ya know what happens when you assume.....

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http://www.cdph.ca.gov/services/boards/Documents/DeclinationFluVaccine.pdf

So eager to get your shot and make damn sure everyone around you gets it too. You have no clue what is in the vaccine. You didn't grow it. You didn't extract the antigen. Didn't label it, Didn't package it...Sooooo very trusting that you're receiving what they say is in the vial.

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/services/boards/Documents/DeclinationFluVaccine.pdf

My comments are not about the fairness of mandating vaccines or even the wisdom of getting or refusing vaccines, just your comment above, so I do not want to have a pro- or anti-vaccine conversation.

So your statement above is true, but that would also be the case with any medication, any food you eat which you have purchased from a grocery store, any food you eat at a restaurant.

Do you give medications to your patients knowing that you really can't guarantee them that they are receiving what it says is in the vial? Are you only concerned with honesty in labeling as it relates to vaccines?

There are plenty of arguments being made vs. vaccines which assume that ingredients listed in the vial are accurate. It's not really necessary to take the position that every manufacturer is lying about ingredients. That truly could be assumed of ANY substance we put in our bodies which we haven't ourselves grown, labeled and packaged. At some point you have to take it at face value or you will be spend your life fearing anything you cannot personally verify. I took some Aleve today for neck/back pain. I normally don't, but today I feel like I just really need to address my pain. I didn't grow it, label it, package it, yet I'm willing to accept the odds that I got what the package stated I got.

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We will either stand up and say enough!....or let gubmint take over our lives.

I agree that government is getting too intrusive. But in this case, we are generally talking about employers and their requirements for employment (perhaps the VA or public health entities have the same policy, I don't know about that). Whether or not we are talking requirements that employees be nonsmokers or receive immunizations, these are private companies-not the "gubmint."

Ironically, it will be the "gubmint" which will eventually be called on to interpret these requirements for employment as illegal or unconstitutional when they are inevitably challenged in court.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
None of the above are actually "rights" any more than I have the "right" to not be subjected to anti-vaccine rhetoric.

Then don't read it, see....you're allowed ro refuse......nobody's mandating you to read it like they are mandating for others to get the vaccine. Which is the point I am trying to make. Peace.:redpinkhe

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Specializes in ED.

from flmomof5ya know what happens when you assume.....

i didn't "assume" anything. i merely responded to your statement. apologies if it was unclear that the "you" in the final paragraph was the collective you - i am speaking to everyone's freedom of choice. did you miss my point?

my point was that i (and any parent this country) am free to feed my kids any old crap i want - and never take a walk around the block with them for 18 years - but it is a good idea if my kids have been educated about good nutrition & exercise so i can't completely destroy their health and so they have real freedom of choice which always has to be informed.

so - not assuming here - just clarifying: you think it is a bad thing that public schools have taken unhealthy food choices off the menu - the menu being paid for by our tax dollars (same tax dollars that end up paying for the ed visit for the uninsured obese type ii diabetic 9 year old)?

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Actually, that menu is being paid for by the parents of the students that don't get free meals. (Taxes are paid by those of us who have enough income to be taxed and we have to purchase the meals for our children.)

You remove learning when you remove choice. The first thing many of the schools did is replace all the unhealthy stuff with veggies and a salad bar. Result, the children chose to go hungry. They didn't want to eat what was presented. You can't just flip a switch on children. They must be guided by their parents. Schools were throwing out more food than they served. It is simply another great idea in thought....bad idea in practicality.

I agree with seeing obese children....it's sickening. What is absolutely a sign of our times is my NORMAL BMI children were accused of being anorexic. Sad. I got the same kinds of accusations because until peri-menopause reared it's head, I was 5'4" and 110 lbs. (I am currently 125)

You are correct that education is the key....making things mandatory is totalitarian. That is the issue.

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The quotes in post #15 are attributed to the wrong person.

Sorry about that, don't know what I did wrong; thanks for pointing it out though. :-)

Seasonal flu vaccines cover for three types: Flu B, Flu A (H1N1), and Flu A (H3N2), the three most common flu types. The Flu A portion won't really help you with Flu B (which is why it also contains Flu B).

Maybe using "A" or "B" was wrong, I wasn't meaning the types, just illustrating the differences... Problem is if it covered all the flu's types, strains, etc, then they wouldn't need to make "educated guesses" as to which one it is this year. So they're not covering everything with each shot and hence, it pretty much becomes pointless to take it. You have a CHANCE of not getting the flu if you take the shot, probably about the same as if you didn't get it; but that's just an assumption on my part.

Pneumonia is an inflammation of the lung, which you are correct is the common cause of flu deaths. But they aren't by any means unrelated, pneumonia is the life threatening condition that the flu causes. Just like nobody actually dies of tylenol overdose, they die of liver failure.

You can get pneumonia without flu and you can get the flu and never get pneumonia either. So it stands to reason that if pneumonia is what's killing most people who get the flu then it's pneumonia that should be vaccinated against as the flu itself is not the main culprit.

You are correct that the rate of effectiveness is much lower in the elderly, which is why it's so important that those of us for whom it is effective get vaccinated. Vaccines depend on a strong immune response to the vaccine, without that they don't work. Many elderly patients aren't capable of mustering the immune response required to build sufficient antibodies following vaccination, rather they depend on the vaccinated population's ability to fend off the virus so we don't pass it on to them.

Again, this depends on if they get the correct strain for this year's flu shot... so they're depending on a guess or fortune tellers.

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