I’m sure I have an unpopular opinion but does anyone else feel like the mass push for facial coverings and masks has very little benefit? Think about it (I know this is immature, so forgive me) if a fart can go through underwear and a pair of jeans... can’t good ol’ Rona go through a piece of cotton? Not only that, the general public is not educated in how to wear PPE and are not wearing the masks or gloves correctly.
Frankly... mask and gloves provide them with a false sense of security.
As nurses, we are keenly of what’s clean or sterile so we can do a pretty good job navigating ourselves in public during this pandemic. However, not trying to be disrespectful or anything, watching the public on with their masks and gloves on is quite entertaining to say the least. I was in Whole Foods recently and you can see who’s a medical professional from a mile away as it’s obvious to see which hand they’ve designated as their “dirty hand” and how they hold they hand in resting position while grocery shopping! If I can smell my coffee through my mask as I pick up a new bag from the shelf and toss it into the cart, then Rona ain’t going to be fooled by my mask. I’m not willing to waste an N95 for grocery shopping. I just don’t see the need for a mask out in public unless you have a new or sudden change in cough or are immune compromised. We will always have rouge individuals who will defy advice and not wear a mask when sick, but I’m talking about the general public. I do see the benefit when you have a cough as it will stop the droplets from traveling further. But just breathing in and out can transfer this virus... I don’t know how a mask will provide protection from this. I live in a fairly wealthy area where almost EVERYONE is wearing a mask in public. For those who are not wearing a mask, is it because of a conscious decision, typically unrelated to financial reasons.
My case is: I don’t see the efficacy of surgical/homemade masks against coronavirus for healthy individuals.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
7 minutes ago, blue_bug said:
Actually, you accused me of not caring about children and ignoring risks (emotional response as well as rude and inaccurate). I have already provided links for the science, which you have not done, showing your opinions are not fact based. If you call that challenging thinking, there’s really zero point in conversing with you. The only question you asked, you can easily find the answer to by looking, but there are many many more diseases that cause far greater death and suffering than covid does. Here’s one simple graph, but you can look for yourself if you’re actually interested. There is a very low complication rate especially if you take out those in nursing homes and those with comorbids. Now I really am done with responding to you as you show great difficulty in responding civilly and that’s my right to not engage and continue conversations such as this, and that does not mean I don’t have the right to post. But thanks for continuing the condescending baloney.
So you've now demonstrated that facial coverings aren't of value and there's no need to protect children from COVID 19, with that image? Is that what you believe?
If they aren’t helpful for healthcare workers who are trained in infection control, good practices such as not touching the face/mask, hand washing, then it certainly isn’t going to be any better in the general public!!
I don't think you can make that claim because our exposure and use is very, very different. The general public is not intubating anyone or administering nebulizer treatments or spending extended time in confined spaced with severely ill and symptomatic people AFAIK and I cannot socially distance at all from my patients- my arms just aren't that long. And my shifts are 12+ house long which is a lot of respiring moisture on a mask- when I run to the grocery store I have it on 1-2 hours max. Our use profile is very different from the general public and knowledge about best practices doesn't address our additional risk factors.
I don't think you can make that claim because our exposure and use is very, very different. The general public is not intubating anyone or administering nebulizer treatments or spending extended time in confined spaced with severely ill and symptomatic people AFAIK and I cannot socially distance at all from my patients- my arms just aren't that long. And my shifts are 12+ house long which is a lot of respiring moisture on a mask- when I run to the grocery store I have it on 1-2 hours max. Our use profile is very different from the general public and knowledge about best practices doesn't address our additional risk factors.
I realize there are significant differences on both sides! That doesn’t mean the claim or study isn’t applicable. The truth is these masks simply cannot filter viruses. And some of the crazy things I’ve seen people do are driving in them (so they are in them for much longer than just the grocery run), leave them sitting in their car (not washing and reusing them), touching everything in sight and then adjusting the mask, pulling it down to eat, putting it under the nose...they are quite literally bringing more virus and bacteria particles to the mask where it has exhaled droplets for them to incubate right at the mouth and nose. It is all mind baffling. LOL
15 minutes ago, HiddencatBSN said:
I don't think you can make that claim because our exposure and use is very, very different. The general public is not intubating anyone or administering nebulizer treatments or spending extended time in confined spaced with severely ill and symptomatic people AFAIK and I cannot socially distance at all from my patients- my arms just aren't that long. And my shifts are 12+ house long which is a lot of respiring moisture on a mask- when I run to the grocery store I have it on 1-2 hours max. Our use profile is very different from the general public and knowledge about best practices doesn't address our additional risk factors.
Also in that pic I just put up, I think the surgical mask they are using is a level 3 which I have not seen the public have. At most the ones I’ve seen are level 1 and can’t filter viruses at all.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
34 minutes ago, blue_bug said:
I realize there are significant differences on both sides! That doesn’t mean the claim or study isn’t applicable. The truth is these masks simply cannot filter viruses. And some of the crazy things I’ve seen people do are driving in them (so they are in them for much longer than just the grocery run), leave them sitting in their car (not washing and reusing them), touching everything in sight and then adjusting the mask, pulling it down to eat, putting it under the nose...they are quite literally bringing more virus and bacteria particles to the mask where it has exhaled droplets for them to incubate right at the mouth and nose. It is all mind baffling. LOL
Also in that pic I just put up, I think the surgical mask they are using is a level 3 which I have not seen the public have. At most the ones I’ve seen are level 1 and can’t filter viruses at all.
Are you not understanding that no one is expecting the masks and facial coverings to filter out viruses? The facial coverings are used to decrease droplet contamination in the immediate area...to protect others from you and your breath...just like in surgery.
Are you not understanding that no one is expecting the masks and facial coverings to filter out viruses? The facial coverings are used to decrease droplet contamination in the immediate area...to protect others from you and your breath...just like in surgery.
“Are you not understanding” or reading the posts??? That’s exactly what I said in my first post. ??♀️ All they can do is reduce droplets, which can also be achieved by covering your mouth when you cough and sneeze. Hygiene 101. Thanks for recalling what I already said. ?
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
26 minutes ago, blue_bug said:
“Are you not understanding” or reading the posts??? That’s exactly what I said in my first post. ??♀️ All they can do is reduce droplets, which can also be achieved by covering your mouth when you cough and sneeze. Hygiene 101. Thanks for recalling what I already said. ?
So your ongoing remarks are confusing...you seem to be arguing that they aren't valuable.
This is an amazing example of how a graphical image can be misconstrued. The image appears to be saying: “Covid-19 looks more like influenza…” Yet this is definitively, not the case. The argument is that Covid-19 is not as lethal than SARS or MERS. This is true. Still let’s put Covid-19 into perspective from this image alone:
Season flu fatal cases = 0.1% (0.001) note: Actually I believe it’s closer to 0.0017 which is closer to 0.002 (or 0.2%) if you prefer.
Covid-19 cases = 3.4% or 0.034.
Therefore Covid-19’s fatality rate is 34x that of seasonal influenza.
At 34x fatality rate of the flu, it's very lethal when compared to the flue, although not as lethal as SARS, MERS or the bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima in 1945.
Time’s article is NOT saying that Covid-19 is “like the seasonal flu,” at all. Still the usage appears to convey that the image proves that Covid-19 is the same as the flu. This is so wrong. Do your math.
This image came from Varsoy Healthcare's facebook page back in mid-March. Varsoy does not sell masks, they do sell alcohol hand disinfectant. They have pulled this image. Varsoy is a manufacturer whose address is: : SPO-9, 37, 80 Feet Ring Rd, Jnana Jyothi Nagar, Bengaluru, Karnataka 560056, India
Here is some historical verbiage from their facebook page:
“Ellen Waddell I’ve sent you a message. Please respond. Your brilliant mask photo is viral and out of misunderstanding, people are using it as an excuse not to wear a mask.”
Their response: “Varsoy healthcare Hi Ellen, The content on the face mask post is under review from the experts. We have removed the post from our official page. The results are still awaited from the specialist.”
The graphic has been off the site since Mid-March. “Ryan Patrick Donnelly Can we get a statement about the mask graphic? Was it removed and if so why?”
This is an amazing example of how a graphical image can be misconstrued. The image appears to be saying: “Covid-19 looks more like influenza…” Yet this is definitively, not the case. The argument is that Covid-19 is not as lethal than SARS or MERS. This is true. Still let’s put Covid-19 into perspective from this image alone:
Season flu fatal cases = 0.1% (0.001) note: Actually I believe it’s closer to 0.0017 which is closer to 0.002 (or 0.2%) if you prefer.
Covid-19 cases = 3.4% or 0.034.
Therefore Covid-19’s fatality rate is 34x that of seasonal influenza.
At 34x fatality rate of the flu, it's very lethal when compared to the flue, although not as lethal as SARS, MERS or the bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima in 1945.
Time’s article is NOT saying that Covid-19 is “like the seasonal flu,” at all. Still the usage appears to convey that the image proves that Covid-19 is the same as the flu. This is so wrong. Do your math.
Great example of using an image inappropriately.
I also never said it was like the seasonal flu...and it’s not wrong at all, it clearly shows flu is less...baloney asked what other diseases were more deadly.
This image came from Varsoy Healthcare's facebook page back in mid-March. Varsoy does not sell masks, they do sell alcohol hand disinfectant. They have pulled this image. Varsoy is a manufacturer whose address is: : SPO-9, 37, 80 Feet Ring Rd, Jnana Jyothi Nagar, Bengaluru, Karnataka 560056, India
Here is some historical verbiage from their facebook page:
“Ellen Waddell I’ve sent you a message. Please respond. Your brilliant mask photo is viral and out of misunderstanding, people are using it as an excuse not to wear a mask.”
Their response: “Varsoy healthcare Hi Ellen, The content on the face mask post is under review from the experts. We have removed the post from our official page. The results are still awaited from the specialist.”
The graphic has been off the site since Mid-March. “Ryan Patrick Donnelly Can we get a statement about the mask graphic? Was it removed and if so why?”
Just because someone creates a pretty image does not necessarily mean that one should believe it. Note that there is zero reference.
This is what I call Info-garbage and any wise nurse ought to see it as such since any reputable source will cite references to back up such claims.
Goodness. Seems like everyone wants to just argue and pick without really reading. It doesn’t matter who posted it or if they took it down, the fact remains they cannot filter viruses and there’s even a question about droplets...I’ll reiterate what I’ve already said, and still say...they are 100% ineffective at filtering viruses. At best they can filter droplets which you can also achieve by covering your mouth and nose when you cough/sneeze. It’s not an effective strategy or one that’s recommended elsewhere for healthy people to mask. Also masking is not risk free, so to require it without having a clear benefit is ridiculous.
toomuchbaloney
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So you've now demonstrated that facial coverings aren't of value and there's no need to protect children from COVID 19, with that image? Is that what you believe?