Ever been physically attacked by MD? What have or Would you Do?

LovingLearning · Dec 15, 2008

Gee, it would be just terrible if I ever had to use my martial arts training (green belt, Taekwondo).:sstrs:

Me, tournie fighter black belt TKD. I've used it once, not hospital related...prevented a thug from taking my purse. Arm and thumb controlled him to the ground, and then knee to back until police came. Had to admit to his homies he was busted up by a middle aged, fluffy woman.

I am an SN. If it were to happen in the hospital, I am not sure what would occur; yelling I'd handle. Physical assault? I'd handle it and then call the PD...and then go down to ER for a thorough check-up. I may or may not have time to issue the warning 'I am a black belt...' but self defense is definitely something I'd do. And I'd defend others, as well, should that need being done. Male or female, RN or Dr or janitor. Physical assault is a crime, and needs to be treated as such.

Best-

Lovin' Learning

krazykev · Dec 15, 2008

If a doctor ever hit me I would call the police first, a lawyer second, and someone in administration thirdly.

If a doctor yelled at me I would first speak to him and inform him that he behavior is unacceptable.

I will not allow anyone to treat me with anything less than respect!

Shenanigans, RN · Dec 15, 2008

I've never actually seen or heard of an MD assulting another member of staff. Although I did once see a rather short statured consultant, well advanced in years and with the most pouncy and gentlemanly English accent grab a man twice his weight and at least 2 feet higher then him who was high on Meth and drag him out the A&E doors screaming "DON"T YOU DARE STRIKE MY NURSING STAFF YOU UNCOUTH BASTARD!" after said meth head had grabbed the orifice of one nurse then turned and slapped the face of the clinical nurse manager.

It was actually very amusing and we all had a good laugh afterwards. (The cops were already outside as some gangs were having a spat and some had shown up at the AE threatening to blow the place up)

artistnurse · Jul 22, 2011

I come back to this post as an actual member of the profession now...and with (albeit very little) a little experience. I was taught in school that we are not lesser members of the medical profession, and that we deserve respect. I tend to agree with this. As a human being, I deserve respect when you speak to me-and I don't care WHO you are or how close you believe you are to being a god.

That being said...as I've been working the floor as a nurse. I've noticed that the nurses with much more experience approach doctors (with valid questions) as if on eggshells and with a vast amount of deference in their voices. With all this timidity, I believe that people of the MD persuasion sense their own power over these nurses and sometimes abuse the notion that these nurses have of them. Although not physical, but much verbal abuse is issued out to these nurses, which I guess makes them feel smaller, and alas, the cycle continues. Verbal abuse and physical abuse is a big dissatisfier and a big reason may young nurses leave the profession.

I still hold true to the fact that I believe I deserve respect when being spoken to. I recently approached a doctor without any reservation, (as I believe I have the rational right and also owe it to the safety of my patient) to ask him about an illegible order that he'd just written as he's notorious for doing. He read the order back to me sarcastically and then proceeded to say "It's simple", as if I was dimwitted for asking him to translate his horrible writing. Before he finished I said "Well, I couldnt read it, that's why I asked." That was it. He shut up. I went about my day. I've had many occassions where I just stopped them in their tracks. And we both moved on. I'll not be walked over. I get enough of that from patients, staffing ratios, and excessive demands placed on nursing staff for the sake of saving budget money. Sometimes you just have to lay the line down.

It works.

P.S. that being said...I've worked with some gloriously kind doctors who don't have an ego trip to get off on, and genuinely just want to do right by staff and patients alike. I've called doctors at three am about pauses in heartbeat or complaints of pain with sincerest apologies for waking them up. I know I'd hate to be roused out of sleep every hour. The acknowledgement that I recognized I've interrupted their sleep goes a long way. I know professionalism goes both ways. So really this post is for the pompous "beasts of burden" that wouldnt know professionalism if it punched them in the face.

Rob72, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2011

All Posts, politically correct-or not- welcome.

Hurt them. In a personal, intimate, way. All while being able to verbalize exactly why they were a threat to my physical safety, or that of another.

Generally, the flat-affect, "you're a retarded a**", stare is communication enough.

Female docs have tempermental obstructions at times as well, and being verbally competent, with harshness exceeding that of an accomplished she-cat (or, "you can keep up with the girls!" as one co-worker noted) helps.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Jul 22, 2011

the institutional culture has a lot to do with this. when i had my first real hotshot critical care job at stanford university hospital in the mid-70s, the chief of cardiac surgery was a calm, dignified man named norman shumway. on the first day of july uncle norman would tour the new cardiac surgery residents, pouring his coffee back and forth between two cups to cool it, and tell them we were the best nurses they'd ever work with and to do whatever we told them to do because we knew more than they did at that moment. throwing instruments in the or was absolutely out of the question. he'd better not ever hear that one of his residents ever abused a nurse in any way. and that set the tone.

uncle norman is gone to that great cardiac icu in the sky now. i actually never knew that cardiac surgeons were generally supposed to be jerks until after i left there; to my knowledge the residents who went through that program have gone on to be great chiefs in their own rights. almost all of them were wonderful people-- i only knew one that was a jerk by popular acclaim. as it turns out, i had occasion to query his office in my professional capacity for a patient care matter two decades later-- and he's still a rude jerk. but the only one of that program i ever knew. thank you, norman, and may you rest in peace.

i'm with the "call 911 from the floor phone stat" crowd :yeah: .

MN-Nurse, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2011

"Ever been physically attacked by MD? What have or Would you Do?"

I would stick and move.

netglow, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2011

...I've noticed that the nurses with much more experience approach doctors (with valid questions) as if on eggshells and with a vast amount of deference in their voices. With all this timidity, I believe that people of the MD persuasion sense their own power over these nurses and sometimes abuse the notion that these nurses have of them. Although not physical, but much verbal abuse is issued out to these nurses, which I guess makes them feel smaller, and alas, the cycle continues..

This. I interviewed somewhere a while ago. The nurse in charge of the place was the poster chilld for this. She even would stoop somewhat when she spoke with one of the MDs, almost repeatedly bowing as she took a slip of paper with lab orders from this MD's hand. She seemed really beat down. Race/religion/custom-wise she was as caucasian as they come. Her first words to me were, "how thick-skinned are you?" before I even took a seat in the conference room. The whole place had this funky vibe. I declined their offer.

MyGranniePanties · Jul 22, 2011

See this just goes to show how naive I can be sometimes when I read the title my eyes got as big as dinner plates and reading the thread I just can not believe things like this happen! I know I need a lot in the way of life experience, but I do hope I never experience anything like this!

Florence NightinFAIL, BSN, RN · Jul 22, 2011

What kind of question of that? Let's rephrase it hmm?

"Ever been assaulted by a neighbour. What would you do?"

"Ever been assaulted by a teacher. What would you do?"

"Ever been assualted by a housekeeper? What would you do?"

"Ever been assualted by a thug? What would you do?"

Aren't those questions silly?

Chimera21 · Jul 22, 2011

What kind of question of that? Let's rephrase it hmm?
"Ever been assaulted by a neighbour. What would you do?"
"Ever been assaulted by a teacher. What would you do?"
"Ever been assualted by a housekeeper? What would you do?"
"Ever been assualted by a thug? What would you do?"
Aren't those questions silly?

I think the difference here is, all of those save perhaps the teacher are not people who perhaps hold your professional standing on the line. If your neighbor assaults you, you will not typically have your boss, your boss's boss and perhaps their attorney pressuring you to drop charges and/or take a settlement. If a housekeeper assaults you, you're not going to be worried that the administration is going to find some way to let you go if you speak up and demand your rights be upheld.

It isn't so much about the assault itself as it is WHO is doing the assaulting - in this case a person who, fairly or not, is often perceived to be 'above' nursing staff - how do you handle that situation in the workplace? How do you handle the inevitable politics and ramifications of speaking up, whether or not they should exist? It's a little less silly when you look at it from that viewpoint.

Rob72, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2011

what kind of question of that? let's rephrase it hmm?
"ever been assaulted by a neighbour. what would you do?"
poison his dog, give candy & a case of mountain dew to his kids in the afternoon before he gets home, have an affair with his wife, get two friends (fire, heavy rescue draws some big homies)to beat him up while i'm at work.
"ever been assaulted by a teacher. what would you do?"
beat her down! 4'11" of domineering evil in the first grade!
"ever been assualted by a housekeeper? what would you do?"
at least they brought their own mop & bucket for the smears.
"ever been assualted by a thug? what would you do?"
shoot him or stab him. i get fired for doing that in the facility.
aren't those questions silly?

the problem with dang ted hose is that the bar of soap goes flying out of the toe, unless you knot them first. which takes time, and the little white-coated rat might make the stairwell. of course, screams are so loud in there...hard to auscultate your copder after that.