ER violence

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Aug 10, 2005

This profession is what causes burnout. We work hard to learn our jobs and to stay current. We work like dogs caring for entitled jerks. Our employers hate us. That all being not quite enough, we must have other nurses picking on us. I take it back.............................. it isn't really a profession.

Burn out only happens if you dont golf

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Aug 14, 2005

To ALL,

Emergency Department violence is on the rise!!!! Or shall I say that we as nurses have ceased to tolerate it just because we have RN behind our name!!

The increase in violence is proportionate to the Ed overcrowding less inpatient beds and less inpatient RN's to care for those beds. The closing of many Mental Health Facilities across the country has lead to the ED being the forefront of mental health as well as everything else.!!!!!! Mental Healthe patients are self medicating with ETOH. The general public has this sense of entitlement that long waits and their percieved sense of an emergency and prompt treatment have made the ingredients for violence. I have worked in Downtown Gary IN (not as sweet as the song) and the South Side of chicago Cook County(before the new place) but I was never so frightened as I was In a burb of Boston where the average home is 1.1 mil by an unnamed airline pilot because his daughter had a chin lac and he had to wait more that 20 min!!! The administration and nursing are turning a blind eye towards the violence in the Ed. JACH doesn't want restraints you cannot violate a patients rights wtih unlawful search but I had a patient in a nice burb place cut himself out of his own restraints with his own knife after being brought in by police!!!! Our rent a cops Hewy Lewy and Dewy for 10.00 bucks an hour in shirts and ties don't quite cut it...but public image!? there is a disparing negligence for our ED's in the burbs as the City places get it! I have been an RN for 25 years and I wish I could say I have never been assaluted@! work!! :angryfire We need to wake up and stick together!! lost in boston:twocents:

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Aug 14, 2005

Had a 17 yo football player come in the other night, drunk as can be, He got combative and charged one of the female nurses, and I had to take him down.

Now Im in my mid fifties, and Im getting way to old for this. I have several sore muscles. I certainly hope it doesnt hurt my Golfing.

allnurses Guide · Aug 20, 2005

Has anyone ever questrioned why one's ER receives, in custody, people who have been tazed by the police? Sorry but two people have died, here in Florida, in the past six months. The effectiveness, of controlling a person, is not disputed. It is the consquences of being tazed and the supposed studies, by the manufacturers, that is being questioned. And a number of law enforcement communities are questioning these supposed studies."
There are dangers in any confrontation with the police, if they have to physically take you down you might get your head smacked on concrete hard enough to concuss, plus you put the officers at risk. Other alternatives? Guns ....... well, I'd rather be tazed than shot. Wears off faster. We end up checking out anyone who gets taken down, tazed or not, if they complain of pain. Cops don't just taze for the fun of it .... (and if yours do, make some noise about it to the community relations boards!). Most of those who come to my ED after being tazed are still cussing and combative, not the types to invoke a lot of sympathy, and certainly demonstrating why they got tazed in the first place.
And before someone jumps on my case, they may not get much sympathy from me, but they certainly get my professional and thorough care.

grannynurse FNP student · Aug 20, 2005

Has anyone ever questrioned why one's ER receives, in custody, people who have been tazed by the police? Sorry but two people have died, here in Florida, in the past six months. The effectiveness, of controlling a person, is not disputed. It is the consquences of being tazed and the supposed studies, by the manufacturers, that is being questioned. And a number of law enforcement communities are questioning these supposed studies."
There are dangers in any confrontation with the police, if they have to physically take you down you might get your head smacked on concrete hard enough to concuss, plus you put the officers at risk. Other alternatives? Guns ....... well, I'd rather be tazed than shot. Wears off faster. We end up checking out anyone who gets taken down, tazed or not, if they complain of pain. Cops don't just taze for the fun of it .... (and if yours do, make some noise about it to the community relations boards!). Most of those who come to my ED after being tazed are still cussing and combative, not the types to invoke a lot of sympathy, and certainly demonstrating why they got tazed in the first place.
And before someone jumps on my case, they may not get much sympathy from me, but they certainly get my professional and thorough care.
Jolting a healthy, young male, without any known cardiac problems, with 50,000 v is usually not going to result in any lasting problems, to him. How many of those, who show up in our ERs, after being taz are young, healthy males without any known cardiac problems? Not many. And those that are taz, by police officers, are generally high on drugs or have mental health problems and/or other physical health problems. And why is it the responsibility of a health care professional to taz anyone? And why are police departments now questioning the possible negative outcomes? And why are police departments now questioning the manufacturers 'studies'? And, why, in other countries, that experience the same problems, do they deal more effectively with them, other then committing another act of violence?
And before anyone jumps on me for being a bleeding heart liberal, I am and I am also the niece of a retired NYC police officer. And neither he nor I believe it is the responsibility of a nurse to taz anyone, let alone a patient.
Grannynurse :balloons:

MassED, BSN, RN · Aug 20, 2005

Jolting a healthy, young male, without any known cardiac problems, with 50,000 v is usually not going to result in any lasting problems, to him. How many of those, who show up in our ERs, after being taz are young, healthy males without any known cardiac problems? Not many. And those that are taz, by police officers, are generally high on drugs or have mental health problems and/or other physical health problems. And why is it the responsibility of a health care professional to taz anyone? And why are police departments now questioning the possible negative outcomes? And why are police departments now questioning the manufacturers 'studies'? And, why, in other countries, that experience the same problems, do they deal more effectively with them, other then committing another act of violence?
And before anyone jumps on me for being a bleeding heart liberal, I am and I am also the niece of a retired NYC police officer. And neither he nor I believe it is the responsibility of a nurse to taz anyone, let alone a patient.
Grannynurse :balloons:
all I have to say, is that I am ALL FOR protecting myself, the safety of others (those that are non hostile or combative that have the unfortunate experience to be in the ED at the same time as these others that jeopardize the rest of us). I was grabbed by a psych pt the other day (who we know most are not able to reason), and if she hadn't taken her hands off of me and backed up, she would have been taken down by other means. It doesn't matter by how, just so long as I am safe and the safety of other pts in the ED. My main concern is not that person who is jeopardizing ME (as a nurse AND as someone who has a husband and children) or other pts. I don't take kindly to threats of abuse or violence, and I can't believe that you all want us to be lighter on this subject. We are exposed to violence on a daily basis and we HAVE to have a ZERO TOLERANCE policy, if that means threatening with force (either with tazer or what have you) than so be it.

Chad_KY_SRNA · Aug 20, 2005

I think that if you are doing something stupid enough to get the police involved and then behave badly enough that they feel you are an immediate danger to your, the publics or the police officers safety that you deserve what you get. I work LTC and when someone is combative they usually call me, my SO, or one of the other two males in the nursing dept. because we have had alzhiemers patients who have had staff members strangling them. My SO was punched in his mouth that he had to have oral surgery and will have to wear a partial plate for now, May end up buying the false teeth implants but thats another surgery and of course our crappy insurance doesn't cover anything like that. So yeah I am a little anti-violence and for protecting the caregivers.

Jolting a healthy, young male, without any known cardiac problems, with 50,000 v is usually not going to result in any lasting problems, to him. How many of those, who show up in our ERs, after being taz are young, healthy males without any known cardiac problems? Not many. And those that are taz, by police officers, are generally high on drugs or have mental health problems and/or other physical health problems. And why is it the responsibility of a health care professional to taz anyone? And why are police departments now questioning the possible negative outcomes? And why are police departments now questioning the manufacturers 'studies'? And, why, in other countries, that experience the same problems, do they deal more effectively with them, other then committing another act of violence?
And before anyone jumps on me for being a bleeding heart liberal, I am and I am also the niece of a retired NYC police officer. And neither he nor I believe it is the responsibility of a nurse to taz anyone, let alone a patient.
Grannynurse :balloons:

Diane Fox · Aug 20, 2005

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How AWESOME it would be to work in an ED with tazers in effect. My dream come true!! But then I'd want to tazer the he** out of a lOOOOOT of patients!!

In my career of over 30 years, I have had guns pointed at me several times, knives pulled on me, pinned against the wall and be involved in pulling patinets and their families apart while intercepting punches. I have had patients call and tell me they are coming back to take all of us out. I have been stalked by some and needless to say the countless---I am gonna sue you. Have I ever been afraid? Not really, just for my staff who are young and impressionable. If you taser someone on crack---yes, they probably will arrest. Would you rather see that or a young cop, nurse or paramedic killed because of their uncontrollable behavior and habits. There is no right answer. At some point, we have to protect ourselves.

roxburin · Aug 20, 2005

Is there a heirarchy in the ER that tells you when to hold someone or tazer someone or break up some people? I am volunteering soon and was wondering if the doctors have the call on that or the nurses or if there no one to tell you what force to use? Do you stand back until someone gives you the OK ? Mostly just curious on that.

Catlover71 · Aug 20, 2005

All patient care staff in high risk areas have to go to it..ie psych, ER, ICU, it was a piloted program last year, I believe this year we are extending it to all patient care staff. T

Okay, what type of nursing encounters the least violence?Certified wimp, here.

grannynurse FNP student · Aug 20, 2005

I think that if you are doing something stupid enough to get the police involved and then behave badly enough that they feel you are an immediate danger to your, the publics or the police officers safety that you deserve what you get. I work LTC and when someone is combative they usually call me, my SO, or one of the other two males in the nursing dept. because we have had alzhiemers patients who have had staff members strangling them. My SO was punched in his mouth that he had to have oral surgery and will have to wear a partial plate for now, May end up buying the false teeth implants but thats another surgery and of course our crappy insurance doesn't cover anything like that. So yeah I am a little anti-violence and for protecting the caregivers.
Pardon me. Just what are you saying. That it is not the police officers responsibility to deal with people who committ assualt and battery? Are you saying that it is the nursing staff's responsibility? And why are you combative alzhiemer patients not housed on a secure unit, with proper staffing, so that no one gets hurt? And since your SO was hurt, on the job, Workers Comp is responsible for his medical and dental problems, not your insurance.
I've worked in ERs and on psych units. And have been assulted by patients. And have never had to taz anyone. Nor would I ever consider doing it. It is not my place nor my job to taz a patient. Feel free to punch the lights out of a patient. Just don't complain when he punches back. Violence only get more violence. and tazers are a form of violence.
Grannynurse :balloons:

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Aug 22, 2005

Even though I work ER and have so for a long period in my life. Im not particularly a fan of Tazers. No particular reason, I much more prefer seeing them pepper sprayed. I love seeing them come in after being pepper sprayed, red watery eyes, reddened skin, snot cycles looking like icecycles their nose is running so much..

a good example of short lived suffering