So I asked about interpreting new managers behavior on this forum a few months ago (if any of you may remember ?) and took the hint and went PRN while I explored other jobs. I am in the process of applying for a job I'm really excited about, and went the route of honesty and informed my manager and director, as well as told them I planned to stay on in my current PRN position to help out when I'm able.
Well fast forward, I was informed that that the job I was applying for was unable to verify my current employment....couldn't get an answer or call back from manager and couldn't get anywhere with HR and did I need to fill out a permission or release of some kind? I reached out to my manager and director and was told not only would they absolutely not be giving me a reference, but they also would not verify my employment, history, qualifications, etc because it is "a policy we have, we are not allowed to give a reference or verification for a job outside of our facilities". I have been a good employee....I haven't made close friends or hung out with many people outside of work, but I never call in, have never been reprimanded or written up and have actually been nominated many times for daisy awards and such. I feel really personally targeted and now I feel extremely upset as I don't know how to verify my employment and don't understand why they won't. I looked into it and it is considered a courtesy not a legal obligation, but I can't help but feel it makes me look bad. I'm worried I now won't get the job.
Has anyone experienced this? Seen someone who has....been on the manager side of things like this? I'm at a loss and honestly really hurt. I have given 3 years of excellent care, 1 year involuntarily on a COVID unit, to this hospital and I feel like I'm just tossed in gutter. ?
I just want to clarify that it's a good thing to not allow managers to give references. Protects everyone. Companies can and should be sued for libel when candidates don't get a job just because the manager didn't like the employee. Verification should be done by HR and they should only state when you were hired, when you left and your wage. That's it. If they refuse to do that much, they are not a place to work for and everyone needs to know it.
Are you providing them with a general HR phone number? A couple of my former managers have retired and I would have to hunt them down anyway if I wanted to use them.
Sounds like this is retaliatory, although I have heard of a few facilities doing this to CYA from being sued or WERE SUED for not providing a consistent response for all employees thus could be considered discriminatory.
Do you have a copy of your last evaluation? That and a paystub copy should be able to prove employment and work performance. As a manager, I was told by HR to not give out any info except to verify date of hire and termination. Often ended the call with " it was such a pleasure to work with XYX who was a reliable employee" for those moving on from my department when they left in good standing. Otherwise, dates only given and told caller to contact HR.
Yes, this information is my understanding as well, although I have known several supervisors and managers who have left with plenty of references so it is not being strictly followed. I did give them HR contact, who also refused to validate. I was able to use coworkers as references and found my paperwork that I signed when I took the job. I am taking a federal job and the woman working on my file said she has been doing this for 15 years and has never encountered this type of bad behavior from a hospital. They are hemorrhaging nurses, and I guess this is their idea of a tourniquet to try to control things....though a rather ineffective one, as it makes me no eager to stay than I was when I started applying for other jobs.
Obviously your current employer is handling this so inappropriately like others have already stated. But I am a little curiously surprised that your potential new employer is using this as a hold up instead of asking for other forms of verification. I would think they’ve encountered this before.
I am taking a federal position....I guess this just how they have always and currently do things. The woman working on my file said she has been verifying references, etc for 15 years and has never dealt with such bad behavior from a hospital. I submitted my paperwork from when I accepted the position I'm leaving and that will suffice, but I felt it made me out to be a bad employee or something.
How do they hire people? I bet they rely on references and verifications of employment...
exactly! They are professionals in walking that thin line of following "federal mandates" while simultaneously demonstrating poor etiquette. They take advantage of other's generosity and then are themselves stingy!
32 minutes ago, 2BS Nurse said:
Are you providing them with a general HR phone number? A couple of my former managers have retired and I would have to hunt them down anyway if I wanted to use them.
Yes, HR has also been uncooperative, citing their "policy"
Wow. This facility has discovered a new low for employers. Is there some sort of award they're shooting for?
What kind of facility/organization is it?
Yes, they definitely deserve an award. I have been around the block with hospitals and this caught me by surprise. I have had managers who would only verify employment or forward a standard form, but to have the entire hospital system to include HR be uncooperative....shame! They have many military spouses and military affiliates who work for them, it's almost inevitable that they will eventually leave....and apparently without any references or even employment verification.
Your current employment is public record through both state and federal payroll taxes, you're prospective employer should know how to check to see if payroll taxes are currently being paid on your behalf and by whom.
If your current employer is saying they don't want to acknowledge you work for them then they are potentially guilty of tax fraud, and that you'll be happy to have state and federal governments investigate and then confirm your employment with them to anyone you see fit to tell.
Unfortunately the federal law is that they only have to disclose my employment and the details of my employment if federally mandated such as for tax audit, etc. There are no actual laws stipulating that they must verify this information to anyone else, it is a courtesy, but not a legal responsibility...and they have proven they have no civility. They don't want to see nurses happy, they would rather try to make them feel stuck.
On 7/6/2021 at 10:03 PM, FolksBtrippin said:
While it is reasonable for your manager not to give a reference, it is outrageously unprofessional of HR not to verify employment.
Please out this hospital.
People need to know this about them.
I will out them when I am finally out myself! LOL. They are a large hospital system in the area, but are not national and are only located in the state I am currently in. Lesson learned, I feel hospitals with nation wide facilities have better continuity when it comes to policies.
Unfortunately the federal law is that they only have to disclose my employment and the details of my employment if federally mandated such as for tax audit, etc. There are no actual laws stipulating that they must verify this information to anyone else, it is a courtesy, but not a legal responsibility...and they have proven they have no civility. They don't want to see nurses happy, they would rather try to make them feel stuck.
You're correct, I should clarify, you are free to submit to a prospective employer any form of wages / salaries that are provided to you. You are free to provide your employer provided wage per hours worked as well as hours worked. Since this would likely be provided from the same forms provided to State and Federal governments, if your employer claims that these figures are not actually correct then they are admitted to having submitted false wages and/or hours worked to state and federal goverments.
As other have stated a pay stub should prove that you worked there. A third party company was having trouble verifying my employment in corrections. In corrections we use a medical company that has a contract with the jail or prison. So say I work for 123 prison (just an example since I don't want to use the actual prison name). The company that they would need to verify the employment would be ABC company. This has happened to me twice but the company reached out to me and I told them the name of who owns the contract and it was later verified. Sorry to hear that HR is giving them the run around though. This place sounds terrible to work for. This is an actual hospital?!?!
Specializes in M/S, LTC, home care, corrections and psych.
On 7/6/2021 at 9:15 PM, caliotter3 said:
The employer is deliberately sabotaging your efforts. Just a different form of blacklisting without taking responsibility. They could answer the phone and do their best to make certain you don't get the job, but they prefer the passive aggressive method; does not allow for you to have any legal recourse. I knew an excellent nurse who found out that he was not getting anywhere in the job search because his (our) employer was deliberately lying about his job performance to prospective employers. The source that informed him about what was going on told him that is one way employers "keep" their good employees. As for blacklisting in general, there could be many factors involved, to include personal power trips and vendettas.
Remind me again how "nurses eat their young" isn't a thing? Nurses have proven themselves, time and again, to be the most petty and vindictive bunch of "professionals" in the medical field.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
21 hours ago, By-a-thred, RN said:
Remind me again how "nurses eat their young" isn't a thing? Nurses have proven themselves, time and again, to be the most petty and vindictive bunch of "professionals" in the medical field.
I don't think this is a "eat your young" thing so much as an employer being shady. I agree that the OP should "out" this hospital once they are out!!
Remind me again how "nurses eat their young" isn't a thing? Nurses have proven themselves, time and again, to be the most petty and vindictive bunch of "professionals" in the medical field.
While I'm sure there are cases of individual NMs being vindictive in this way, HR sure the heck isn't nurses; they're just another "profession" we are now subject to and taking orders from.
And to think we were soooooo up in arms about the evil doctors.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
On 7/14/2021 at 1:31 AM, By-a-thred, RN said:
Remind me again how "nurses eat their young" isn't a thing? Nurses have proven themselves, time and again, to be the most petty and vindictive bunch of "professionals" in the medical field.
2BS Nurse, BSN
703 Posts
Are you providing them with a general HR phone number? A couple of my former managers have retired and I would have to hunt them down anyway if I wanted to use them.