Late last month we met with representatives of the California Board of Registered Nursing (BRN) as part of our continuing efforts to address the BRN's previous decision to discontinue issuing RN licenses to Excelsior College associate degree graduates after December 2003. This meeting was productive and I want to share with you how we are moving forward toward a positive resolution of this matter.
First, let me point out that for those of our students who were enrolled in our associate degree nursing program prior to December 5, 2003, the question of your eligibility for licensure is not at issue. The plan being laid out below does not pertain to you. The BRN has assured us that if you remain enrolled in the program and proceed to graduation that you will be permitted to sit for the NCLEX-RN examination. Furthermore, the BRN has stated that if you pass the exam you will be eligible for licensure in California, assuming that you meet all the other, non-education related requirements.
During our March meeting with the BRN, several aspects of the situation were discussed in frank and open dialogue. The result is that the BRN has agreed to grant original licensure, under defined circumstances, to Excelsior College graduates who enrolled after December 5, 2003. In simplest terms, the BRN has indicated its willingness to license our graduates who are already licensed vocational nurses and who have completed a 400-hour precepted experience in concert with an approved in-state nursing program. This concept has already been communicated by the BRN to directors of associate degree nursing programs in California.
The College is currently in the process of contacting and working with California-based nursing schools to make the necessary arrangements for these precepted experiences. Once these arrangements have been made and approved by the BRN, Excelsior College will be able to resume enrolling California residents into our associate degree nursing program.
In addition, the BRN assured us that graduates of Excelsior College who hold current, valid RN licenses from another state will be considered for licensure by endorsement on the same terms as are graduates of other out-of-state associate degree programs.
We are pleased with this turn of events and are diligently pursuing the necessary arrangements that will once again make the Excelsior College option available to residents of California. In the meantime, we thank you for the letters, emails, and phone calls that you have sent in support of the College.
There is nothing in the letter that implies anything is set in stone here.
That may be. But the headline of the thread doesn't just imply that it's set in stone. It states:
EC grads WILL be allowed licensure in California.
If people want to post positive things and disagree with me, that's fine. And if people believe this is going to happen eventually, then great.
But to tell people they're going to be licensed for sure is not helpful, IMHO. EC is promoting their program heavily on this website. If somebody enrolls under the premise that they will be licensed, and that turns out not to be the case then ... it's actually hurtful.
So if people get upset when I inject a little reality into the situation, so be it.
Specializes in Trauma,ER,CCU/OHU/Nsg Ed/Nsg Research.
That may be. But the headline of the thread doesn't just imply that it's set in stone. It states:
EC grads WILL be allowed licensure in California.
If people want to post positive things and disagree with me, that's fine. And if people believe this is going to happen eventually, then great.
But to tell people they're going to be licensed for sure is not helpful, IMHO. EC is promoting their program heavily on this website. If somebody enrolls under the premise that they will be licensed, and that turns out not to be the case then ... it's actually hurtful.
So if people get upset when I inject a little reality into the situation, so be it.
:typing
I believe it'll eventually happen. CA is probably a wellspring of prospective students, considering barriers to traditional education there (wait lists, etc.). There is too much money to be made for EC to not work very hard to find a solution here.
I don't know of anyone who has enrolled with EC that ever felt misled about varying state licensure issues. They plaster that info all over their website. I think most people investigate the program deeply before they decide to take that plunge. That's why there are so many threads here started by people wanting to know more before they even contact the school. I believe that's just the nature of anyone considering doing a distance/online/etc. program. They want to know everything before they lay out all that money to a school that's not down the street, so to speak.
Specializes in rehab; med/surg; l&d; peds/home care.
why is it if you can pass the nclex rn california doesn't want you to work there?
just a disclaimer, i am not trying to sound rude, but i am replying to the post below where lizz gave you a link, since the link includes info about the cpne. currently, one of cali's issues with excelsior is that their program does not have concurrent clinical experiences with theory. in ec, you take your 7 nursing exams, consisting of med-surg, advanced med-surg, peds, maternity, ob/gyn, pharmacology, management/leadership, geriatrics, pain management, all the stuff in a regular ADN program. when you complete these exams, and have completed all but 10 of your general ed credits (you need 31 credits), you can take the cpne.
the cpne is NOT a weekend "course". it is an intensive, two and a half day perfomance exam, in which you are watched like a hawk doing basic nursing care, everything from flushing an heplock to a central/groshong/PICC or a peripheral iv, hanging iv meds, giving sub-q, PO, and IM meds, auscultating lung sounds, performing neuro exam, administering nebulizer treatments, performing skin assessments, changing sterile dressings, doing wound care, performing ROM, ambulating pts, inserting foleys if needed, collecting all kinds of specimens (stool O&P, sputum cx, etc), managing chest tubes, taking vital signs, adminstering tube feedings, etc. you are not taught anything, you may only ask a non-teaching type question. you are observed by a MSN or PhD prepared RN educator. you are failed if you make a single mistake, whether it be asepsis, more than a 10% difference in I&O measurement, failure to document a med given within 20 minutes, etc. it is very, very strict. the entire purpose of the cpne is to see that, once you have completed all nursing courses, and general eds needed, that you can function as a first-day RN graduate on a med-surg or pediatric floor. you also have a simulation lab (just like in a traditional school) where you are checked off hanging IVPB, calculating and giving IVP meds, giving sub-q and IM meds, and changing a sterile dressing. it is very stressful, and only has a 63% first time pass rate because the expectations are so high. but their nclex-rn rate is the same as national average. ec was also awarded the NLNAC school of excellence award along with only 7 other schools in the country. they must be doing something good, right?
excelsior college is designed for people who have extensive clinical experience and are comfortable working with patients. most students are LPN's, but some are Paramedics. they used to allow Medical Assistants and basic EMT's to enroll, and i think that is what caused all the problems that california has with ec now. med assistants and emts were taking quick 6 to 8 week courses, then going through excelsior, becoming RN's and obviously not familiar with the hospital setting. i don't know of studies or reports that prove this, but i can only imagine what kind of RN one would make with only a 6 week emt or med assistant course behind them, and the course requirements were not what they are today.
so for those who think the cpne is a easy breezy "weekend course", please research what it is exactly. adding another disclaimer: I am NOT pointing this toward anyone! i simply want people to understand the whole cpne process. it is difficult to explain in one post in a matter of minutes. i have been studying for a year to complete this program and am waiting for my cpne date. i have a job waiting for me, a job that i can (and do sometimes) now, but i really need that RN behind my name instead of LPN. i hope to be done with cpne and boards by november.
i hope one day california will come around and allow either initial licensure for people who live in cali, or licensure by endorsement. maybe they could follow illinois and allow licensure by endorsement after you have worked for 2 years as a RN in another state. you can however, work in the VA hospitals in california as an EC RN (because they are federally run, not state). i wish they would come up with an agreement. i don't understand either that if you can pass the nclex-rn why it's not good enough for every state. i understand cali is just looking out for it's patients, but i wish that somehow, someway this issue could be resolved. there ARE ec Rn's working in cali now, because they enrolled/graduated before that magical cut-off date in 2003. i haven't heard of a report that these ec rn's are causing major problems. i betcha you wouldn't know the difference between a ec rn or a traditional educated rn if you were working with them. i work with ec rn's at my job, and one is the DON. she's one of the smartest nurses i've ever met. i had an ec rn take care of my dad s/p 5 vessel CABG in the CVICU. she was so smart she made my head spin.
*most* people who go through ec are LPNs who have been lpn's for a long time, don't have time to go to traditional school (most people need to work for a living, you know? or have kids, household responsibilities, etc) or don't want to wait the two to three years to get into a program. a lot of states, lpn's do a lot of what rn's do, and the lpn's who go through for their rn just want to become more educated. what's so wrong with that? i learned a ton of things going through their program. and if i could do it all over again, i would still do my education the same way. i have nothing negative to say about excelsior. if it wasn't for their program, i would not be becoming an RN.
but this is just my biased opinion, being a proud excelsior student, and soon to be grad. i hope one day ec and cali will come to an agreement. i believe it will happen, as cali took the initiative to sit down with ec after ec lost their court battle with cali, and are figuring out a system so that everyone is happy. kudos to them.
i hope i answered your questions. feel free to ask more, if you wish.
You've made some excellent points here rehab nurse. I would just like to elaborate on why the board had issues with EC and the CPNE.
It wasn't just the lack of clinical hours in the program, even though that was a big problem. The CPNE doesn't test for all of the material that's learned during those clinical hours, which includes rotations other than Med Surg and Peds. There's nothing in the CPNE that tests for ICU, ER, geriatrics, telemetry, psych, etc. ... which are clinicals required in the last year of a traditional nursing program. So, this is the main reason why the board had issues with the CPNE.
As for LVN's having experience, I do think that's one of the best arguments in favor of the program. But EC doesn't require that experience, they only require the license. So, there's no guarantee that people do have work experience. And, of course, they don't require that people be LVN's either. I think this is what ultimately caused problems that prompted the board to re-examine the program.
Just FYI: LVN's are able to bypass the waiting lists in California by passing challenge exams, and many LVN's do get into traditional programs much faster this way.
don't you think most skills are learned on the job? in traditional nursing schools you go through so much material are you really going to remember it all if you don't do it everyday? for example meds - i knew very little about meds after grad from lpn school but once i was a nurse passing meds for a while i've learned a lot about them.
don't you think most skills are learned on the job? in traditional nursing schools you go through so much material are you really going to remember it all if you don't do it everyday? for example meds - i knew very little about meds after grad from lpn school but once i was a nurse passing meds for a while i've learned a lot about them.
This gets back to the age old arguments about how valuable nursing education is or isn't. But I think a lot of people would agree that someone who at least has gone to LVN school is probably going to be safer than someone who is an MA, for example. In California there were problems with inexperienced EC MA's getting RN licenses. This, apparently, is what prompted the board to re-examine the program. While EC doesn't allow MA's anymore, they didn't eliminate them until after the California decision.
Regardless of the arguments about work experience, LVN's versus non-LVN's etc. the bottom line is these education requirements are set by California law, which is what the court case was about. So the EC program is going to have to meet those requirements and, this is what they're now trying to do in conjunction with California colleges.
Specializes in Emergency, Family Practice, Occ. Health.
This gets back to the age old arguments about how valuable nursing education is or isn't. But I think a lot of people would agree that someone who at least has gone to LVN school is probably going to be safer than someone who is an MA, for example. In California there were problems with inexperienced EC MA's getting RN licenses. This, apparently, is what prompted the board to re-examine the program. While EC doesn't allow MA's anymore, they didn't eliminate them until after the California decision.
Regardless of the arguments about work experience, LVN's versus non-LVN's etc. the bottom line is these education requirements are set by California law, which is what the court case was about. So the EC program is going to have to meet those requirements and, this is what they're now trying to do in conjunction with California colleges.
:typing
As the letter clearly said they are BOTH attempting to work on clearing through the red tape involved with this issue.
Again, I must ask "Do you have any proof for the allegations you make against us unsafe Excelsior grads?"
You ought to be careful about these personal attacks. And yes we do take them personally.
of course, there is no proof. it's about being nursier-than-thou, and wanting to manage the profession like it's a club.
anyone with the slightest lick of common sense knows that those who graduate from any nursing program will be newbies. becoming experienced occurs from time on the job.
nursing schools graduate newbies, not experienced nurses.
Roy Fokker, BSN, RN
1 Article; 2,011 Posts
Just a friendly reminder from a friendly moderator:
This is a very touchy topic. Please let's focus on the topic and not each other.
'Tis all!
Best,
Roy
Allnurses.com Moderator