EC grads will be allowed licensure in California *update*

[rehab nurse]

April 13, 2006

Dear Students, Alumni and Faculty:

Late last month we met with representatives of the California Board of Registered Nursing (BRN) as part of our continuing efforts to address the BRN's previous decision to discontinue issuing RN licenses to Excelsior College associate degree graduates after December 2003. This meeting was productive and I want to share with you how we are moving forward toward a positive resolution of this matter.

First, let me point out that for those of our students who were enrolled in our associate degree nursing program prior to December 5, 2003, the question of your eligibility for licensure is not at issue. The plan being laid out below does not pertain to you. The BRN has assured us that if you remain enrolled in the program and proceed to graduation that you will be permitted to sit for the NCLEX-RN examination. Furthermore, the BRN has stated that if you pass the exam you will be eligible for licensure in California, assuming that you meet all the other, non-education related requirements.

During our March meeting with the BRN, several aspects of the situation were discussed in frank and open dialogue. The result is that the BRN has agreed to grant original licensure, under defined circumstances, to Excelsior College graduates who enrolled after December 5, 2003. In simplest terms, the BRN has indicated its willingness to license our graduates who are already licensed vocational nurses and who have completed a 400-hour precepted experience in concert with an approved in-state nursing program. This concept has already been communicated by the BRN to directors of associate degree nursing programs in California.

The College is currently in the process of contacting and working with California-based nursing schools to make the necessary arrangements for these precepted experiences. Once these arrangements have been made and approved by the BRN, Excelsior College will be able to resume enrolling California residents into our associate degree nursing program.

In addition, the BRN assured us that graduates of Excelsior College who hold current, valid RN licenses from another state will be considered for licensure by endorsement on the same terms as are graduates of other out-of-state associate degree programs.

We are pleased with this turn of events and are diligently pursuing the necessary arrangements that will once again make the Excelsior College option available to residents of California. In the meantime, we thank you for the letters, emails, and phone calls that you have sent in support of the College.

Kindest regards,

M. Bridget Nettleton, PhD, RN

Dean, School of Nursing

[Sheri257]

Actually, from what I understand after talking to a couple of staff members at the BRN ... this is more complicated than what the letter states.

Excelsior is going to have to go to each school in California and basically set up an LVN-to-RN transition program. It's still going to have to meet the LVN-to-RN requirements, which involves a lot more than the 400 hour preceptorship, to get approved by the board. LVN's are still going to be required to take advanced med-surg, psych, geriatric theory etc. concurrent with clinical. And, also, take the LVN-to-RN transition courses.

This is not going to be mandatory for California programs. EC is going to have to convince each school to do this (and there are over 100) and get each school to submit a new EC LVN-to-RN transition program to the board for approval on a case by case basis.

As one staffer pointed out, the board can't approve anything along these lines until the individual schools submit it for review.

So ... I wouldn't say that EC grads are going to be accepted for licensure yet. The board is definitely willing to consider it, but it could also take quite awhile for this to happen.

:typing

[rehab nurse]

.

[Sheri257]

The thing is, they don't want to turn away experienced RN's who have RN experience in another state. They will have to come up with their own determination of how much time of RN experience they wish for EC grads to have. Whether its six months, a year, two years, etc, they will come up with a number of hours of RN experience and then EC grads WILL be allowed licensure by endorsement into California.

Sorry but, I don't think this is the case. The board is not going to suspend the clinical requirements. And, if you notice, EC isn't actually making that claim either:

In addition, the BRN assured us that graduates of Excelsior College who hold current, valid RN licenses from another state will be considered for licensure by endorsement on the same terms as are graduates of other out-of-state associate degree programs.

This really isn't any different from what the board has been saying all along. Remember: California law requires out-of-state RN's to graduate from schools that have the same clinical requirements that California has. And there are now two court decisions which mandate this requirement. There is no leeway here.

What the board is willing to entertain is allowing EC LVN's into California colleges with an EC LVN-to-RN transition program. As EC states in that letter:

We are pleased with this turn of events and are diligently pursuing the necessary arrangements that will once again make the Excelsior College option available to residents of California.

This proposal only applies to LVN's in California.

Quite frankly ... and this is just my opinion but ... EC's statement here is extremely premature. A lot has to happen to make any of this a reality.

Call me cynical but ... I think they're losing a lot of business because of the California situation, so they want people to believe they have a chance of getting licensed in California when it's certainly not a given at this point.

Don't get me wrong. I do think there's hope for California LVN's. But, IMHO, they shouldn't send out letters like this until they actually have at least one deal with a California college that's actually been approved by the board.

And they shouldn't lead out of state students to believe they can get licensed eventually because, the bottom line is: the law and the court decisions don't allow it ... unless those students meet the clinical requirements.

The bottom line is: Until the BOARD makes an announcement on this ... none of this means anything.

:typing

[rehab nurse]

ok, i give up. you're right, i'm wrong. this is the last time i'll post a statement on this board.

[Jo Dirt]

ok, i give up. you're right, i'm wrong. this is the last time i'll post a statement on this board.

I think lizz wants the letter to say something other than what everyone else reads.

But it seems pretty straight forward to me. And Excelsior has never been known to post wild rumors. I'm not going to take a nursing student's word over what an established institution says.

[Sheri257]

I'm not going to take a nursing student's word over what an established institution says.

I agree. Don't take my word for it.

But what has the board said about this? Nothing. Ultimately, it's the board's decision and, so far, nothing has changed there.

I just hope that people don't make major decisions based upon this until the board makes an official statement.

:typing

[Drysolong]

ok, i give up. you're right, i'm wrong. this is the last time i'll post a statement on this board.

Please don't let this really be your last time.

This situation is of importance to me. I don't quite understand it, but I really appreciate the all the posts in helping me to understand the situation better.

I am an LPN graduate planning to attend Excelsior. I don't live in California, but it's my home and I may return someday.

[Sheri257]

Excelsior has never been known to post wild rumors.

Well ... maybe they don't post "wild" rumors, but they have been known to exaggerate a bit ...

For example, in their statement after the court decision, EC claims the board doesn't review transcripts from out-of-state license applicants. I guess they're trying to claim that the board isn't checking the education records of out-of-state applicants to make sure that the applicant is meeting California education requirements and, therefore, holding EC grads to this standard is unfair.

As EC states ...

https://www.excelsior.edu/portal/page?_pageid=57,49739&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

"In its report to the California Joint Legislative Sunset Review Committee (p.27) the BRN stated “Starting in October 2001, U.S.-educated applicants for licensure by endorsement were no longer required to submit transcripts."

If the BRN, as reported to the Joint Legislative Sunset Review Committee, does not require transcripts from applicants licensed in other states, how can it evaluate these transcripts as it told the Court that it does?"

It is true that the 2001 report says this but, it's obviously in error or out of context. All you have to do is go the board's website, and look at the licensing by endorsement application for out-of-state applicants.

http://www.rn.ca.gov/lic/pdf/end_app_2003.pdf

The transcript requirement is right there in the application on p. 2. Obviously this is why the court didn't buy EC's argument here.

My point is ... if you don't agree with my skepticism, I understand. But don't necessarily believe everything EC has to say either.

The only thing that matters is what the board has to say and, so far, they haven't made any statements that confirm the information in this letter.

:typing

[rehab nurse]

i do not expect the cali's BRN to post this IMMEDIATELY. that's absurd. even my own BON doesn't post things regarding issues with a school in a matter of days. i don't know about your state, but mine is slow. And i sure have had my share of talks with people at BONs who haven't the slightest idea what hey're talking about.

All i was trying to do was pass along a letter that was sent to me by ec, confirmed by the state board advisor at ec, and i decided to post. no where did i say that all of a sudden ec grads can run to cali and get licensed without difficulty. I will however say that one day, it will happen.

Excelsior and the Cali BRN are in meetings frequently about how to resolve this, even after EC LOST their court battle. Cali BRN realizes how many RN's they will turn away eventually just because their initial licensure was through EC. THat' s like saying a RN who graduates from EC with an ADN, then works and puts themselves through BSN, maybe even MSN and into a Nurse Practitioner. Lets say 20 years after graduating from EC, and i for some unknown reason want to move to Cali. Will Cali deny me because 20 years ago, i got my ADN from Esxcelsior. I sure hope not. And if that is their stance, there are 49 other states that have no problems with LPN"s going on for their RN's trough this program. And yes, I am fully aware that some require experience as an RN before endorsing into another, like Illinois.

Just as lizz thought nice to pass along a letter about the CBRN prevailing in the courtbattle between EC and Cali BRN, I was simply passing along an updated, positive letter for us EC students, and I get lectured. Why am I not allowed to pass some positive information along, as lizz was allowed to pass negative (to us ec students anyway) information along?

I truly believe one day Cali will allow EC grads/students with no problem. Until then, feel free for any student who has issues to pm me I can offer you another place to chat free of outside negative influences, which is what this board has become. i still don't know why someone with no distance education (per her words) cares so much about us distance learning/EC students. I sure don't have enough time anymore, and will stick to a board that welcomes us with open arms.

peace.

[Jo Dirt]

Just as lizz thought nice to pass along a letter about the CBRN prevailing in the courtbattle between EC and Cali BRN, I was simply passing along an updated, positive letter for us EC students, and I get lectured. Why am I not allowed to pass some positive information along, as lizz was allowed to pass negative (to us ec students anyway) information along?

I truly believe one day Cali will allow EC grads/students with no problem. Until then, feel free for any student who has issues to pm me I can offer you another place to chat free of outside negative influences, which is what this board has become. i still don't know why someone with no distance education (per her words) cares so much about us distance learning/EC students. I sure don't have enough time anymore, and will stick to a board that welcomes us with open arms.

peace.

Very well said. Amen.

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

This proposal only applies to LVN's in California.

Quite frankly ... and this is just my opinion but ... EC's statement here is extremely premature. A lot has to happen to make any of this a reality.

Call me cynical but ... I think they're losing a lot of business because of the California situation, so they want people to believe they have a chance of getting licensed in California when it's certainly not a given at this point.

Don't get me wrong. I do think there's hope for California LVN's. But, IMHO, they shouldn't send out letters like this until they actually have at least one deal with a California college that's actually been approved by the board.

And they shouldn't lead out of state students to believe they can get licensed eventually because, the bottom line is: the law and the court decisions don't allow it ... unless those students meet the clinical requirements.

The bottom line is: Until the BOARD makes an announcement on this ... none of this means anything.

:typing

There is nothing in the letter that implies anything is set in stone here. I took the letter as an update to students, letting them know that the issue is still on the table and that some kind of plan has been laid out by EC and is awaiting approval. I didn't see the letter as some kind of false hope promise- I saw it as a reminder that they're still working on the CA thing. Good for them. I'm glad they're trying to come up with valid and creative solutions. I know I'm pulling for them.