Dying And Disputing Covid While Seeking Treatment from

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LokelaniRN

Specializes in Pediatrics. 30 Posts

I voted for Trump. I am vaccinated. So did my vaccinated friends. Throwing politics in this is a stupid remark. I also know many Democrats, the health food granola types, who are not vaccinated.

 

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 3,548 Posts

53 minutes ago, LokelaniRN said:

I voted for Trump. I am vaccinated. So did my vaccinated friends. Throwing politics in this is a stupid remark. I also know many Democrats, the health food granola types, who are not vaccinated.

 

There are many more Trumpers than dippy, hippie types.  Why is it that the reddest states have the most unvaccinated people and hence, the most mortality and morbidity?  Of course it's political.  

LokelaniRN

Specializes in Pediatrics. 30 Posts

It is more of a distrust of government in rural areas, which has nothing to do with being a Trump supporter. It is the same issue with Black and Hispanic, and we are only seeing an increase in vaccination with those people in the last two months or so.

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 3,548 Posts

13 hours ago, LokelaniRN said:

It is more of a distrust of government in rural areas, which has nothing to do with being a Trump supporter. It is the same issue with Black and Hispanic, and we are only seeing an increase in vaccination with those people in the last two months or so.

And it's also bad school systems leading to a distrust of medical science and that never ends well.  Blacks and Hispanics stepped up earlier than rural people.  There are still large swaths of people in the South who are unvaxxed.  Red states are still having a rough go of it.

Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN

Specializes in OR, education. Has 17 years experience. 5 Articles; 10,686 Posts

Several off topic posts removed. Please remember to debate the topic and not the poster. 

turtlesRcool

709 Posts

On 10/22/2021 at 10:39 AM, subee said:

What made it political?  Just because patients cause themselves great harm doesn't mean we dislike them or that we care for them less.  People are just people and we have to meet them where they are.....even if they are responsible for their own predicaments.  But as I type this I wonder if there is anything political about allowing unobstructed commerce to give people easy access to all the crap that makes us sick.

There is a LOT that is political about easy access to crap that makes us sick. Big Agriculture is a powerful lobby. Our federal government heavily subsidizes the commodity crops (rice, cotton, soybeans, wheat, corn - hello high fructose corn syrup), and the biggest producers are far more likely to receive subsidies than small family farms. Shelf-stable crap full of fats, salt, and sweeteners costs less than fresh fruit and vegetables because we, the taxpayers, pay for it to be cheaper to make a twinkie than grow a tomato. So that's what poor people buy - it's cheap, tastes good, fills you up, and takes little time to make when you're juggling multiple minimum wage jobs.

Then there's the legacy of urban planning, which was often both racist and classist. Many people live in 'food deserts' where they're shopping at the corner bodega because there's no supermarket in the neighborhood. I really can't blame anyone for being overwhelmed by the logistics of taking public transport to a real grocery store and then lugging a full shopping trip worth of stuff back on a bus. The poor also pay more per item for most things because they can't buy in bulk, so they get stuck in a cycle of paying more for basic necessities because they have to buy the smallest packages (and it's not like you can just forego food or diapers for a few weeks while you save up for the bigger packages where the price per item might only be half as much). If you make it harder and more expensive to buy carrots than cheetos, you are incentivizing poor food 'choices.' 

Low-income people are more likely to live near pollution (again, urban planners who put highways right through poor, often black, neighborhoods), increasing the incidence of asthma. Old building are less likely to be up to code and may harbor vermin, mold, and lead paint.  Remember the lead (and other problems) in Flint's water supply? You will never convince me that state officials would have dismissed all those complaints about water making people sick if the complainers had been white and middle class. Ingesting lead is something that can literally change the life trajectory of a child, and 9,000 kids in Flint were subjected to lead in their drinking water for 18 months, while state officials insisted the water was safe, even when it was visibly brown and malodorous. 

It's not that poor people CAN'T make healthy choices, but let's not kid ourselves that the deck isn't stacked against them. Personal responsibility is important, but it's disingenuous to create a system that puts millions of people at a disadvantage and then blames them for not overcoming obstacles the system has placed in their path. Saying something is political isn't just about blaming a particular party or candidate; it's about acknowledging that our entire political system (local, state, and federal) and multiple agencies (including FDA, EPA, etc.) make decisions that impact people's health. Saying people "are responsible for their own predicaments" is far too simplistic to be accurate in most cases.

LokelaniRN

Specializes in Pediatrics. 30 Posts

I agree with your statement on most issues, but food deserts are a self inflicted wound. Stores close in poor areas due to riots , violence and thievery. 
I also remember shopping in a disadvantaged area, and I saw  shoppers making  poor food choices. Buying packaged potato salad at a high cost, rather than ( for nearly the same price) buying all the ingredients to make a potato salad.  Then you have more food in the pantry. It probably all comes down to education.

toomuchbaloney

Has 44 years experience. 7,984 Posts

4 minutes ago, LokelaniRN said:

I agree with your statement on most issues, but food deserts are a self inflicted wound. Stores close in poor areas due to riots , violence and thievery. 
I also remember shopping in a disadvantaged area, and I saw  shoppers making  poor food choices. Buying packaged potato salad at a high cost, rather than ( for nearly the same price) buying all the ingredients to make a potato salad.  Then you have more food in the pantry. It probably all comes down to education.

Your opinion is noted.  I wonder what it is that you read or listen to that informs such an opinion.  Maybe you could provide a citation to help me understand why you hold such a harsh opinion of America's working poor.

LokelaniRN

Specializes in Pediatrics. 30 Posts

History of race riots ( dating back to the 60s) and thefts has made grocery stores leave in those areas, creating food deserts. It is happening to a city next to mine.Grocery stores closing in lower income neighborhoods due to increasing thefts was documented in my towns newspaper. Grocery stores have a very slim profit margin, thefts take that profit away.That is a fact you cannot dispute.

toomuchbaloney

Has 44 years experience. 7,984 Posts

24 minutes ago, LokelaniRN said:

History of race riots ( dating back to the 60s) and thefts has made grocery stores leave in those areas, creating food deserts. It is happening to a city next to mine.Grocery stores closing in lower income neighborhoods due to increasing thefts was documented in my towns newspaper. Grocery stores have a very slim profit margin, thefts take that profit away.That is a fact you cannot dispute.

That's your opinion. 

What facts are you referencing?

nursel56

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty. Has 46 years experience. 6,979 Posts

2 hours ago, LokelaniRN said:

History of race riots ( dating back to the 60s) and thefts has made grocery stores leave in those areas, creating food deserts. It is happening to a city next to mine.Grocery stores closing in lower income neighborhoods due to increasing thefts was documented in my towns newspaper. Grocery stores have a very slim profit margin, thefts take that profit away.That is a fact you cannot dispute.

That isn't true.  "Race riots" are actually very rare events.  I don't know where your town is (and not asking to disclose), but I'm talking about urban areas with high percentage of poverty level income.

Large grocery stores aren't leaving because for the most part they were never there in the first place.  There are small markets and gas station mini-marts.  

You can buy salads at those places and pay 3x as much than if you bought the ingredients at the local large corporate chain grocery store.  But as has been mentioned, lack of transportation makes it very difficult for people to accomplish.

 

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 3,548 Posts

7 hours ago, LokelaniRN said:

I agree with your statement on most issues, but food deserts are a self inflicted wound. Stores close in poor areas due to riots , violence and thievery. 
I also remember shopping in a disadvantaged area, and I saw  shoppers making  poor food choices. Buying packaged potato salad at a high cost, rather than ( for nearly the same price) buying all the ingredients to make a potato salad.  Then you have more food in the pantry. It probably all comes down to education.

Wow.  Call in the police!  Maybe that person buying the potato salad has two jobs and lives alone and doesn't have the time or energy to make potato salad for 1.