Double standard for men?

Sturmgeist · Apr 29, 2012

Ya man, welcome to nursing. There is very definitly a double standard as well as bias aginst men in nursing, I have been in nursing for 17 years and have observed it during that whole time. It's getting better. When I became a nurse less than 5% of nurses were men. Now it's 9-10% depending on whose numbers you belive.
I have never worked in any other female dominated fields so I can't speak for them. Jokes based on your anatomy are the norm and apperently acceptable. You making jokes based on female anatomy will likely be met with write ups and being fired. Being assinged to patient solely cause they are very heavy, or combative & violent, or patients who touch breasts on females will be normal and everybody will think that is appropiate. Everybody will take it for granted that that the male nurses should be assinged to those patients. You can also expect to be considered a sexual predator just wating to show his true colors. Have a young female patient? Naturaly a male will not be assinged to take care of her. This will be an assumption, not a result of patient request. I was once suspended when a crazy female, who was hospitalized after attempting sucide, claim I had groped her breasts. Well she didn't name me but she claimed "that big guy with the beard and blue shirt groped my tits" (I always wear royal blue scrubs). Turns out I went off duty (and then left town on a trip) Monday morning, she was admitted Monday afternoon and discharged Thursday afternoon. I didn't return to the hospital (or to town for that matter) until Friday evening. She and I were never in the hospital at the same time, yet the nurse managers knee jerk reaction was to immediatly suspend me until an "investigation" could be done. That could have consisted of a quick peek at the schedual, but no, like 20 messages were left on my cell phone telling me to contact the nurse manager immediatly while I was away. Then I had to have a "meeting" with the nurse manager and the risk manager where I was questioned for over an hour. the even checked into my background, talked to former employers asking if I had vere been accused of inapropiate behavior (never, never have). Not good for one's reputation and in this business our reputation is VERY important.
The bias is very dependant on hospital or unit culture. Some are much better than others. Bias and double standard might not exsist in all units and be extreme in others. Lucky for me I now work in a male dominated unit with a male nurse manager and it's GREAT!

Wow, that last part scared the crap out of me. I can't believe you couldn't just point to your schedule and say "I was never in the hospital when she was and I was out of town (here is my gas receipt etc) when the alleged assault took place." I am not sure how I would have handled that situation after that. I think I would have had a hard time working with that Nurse Manager again. If someone is so idiotitc to go to those lengths...to where you are guilty until beyond proven innocent. Again, I applaud your level headedness in that kind of situation.

mindlor · Apr 29, 2012

Yup in my previous career I was accused of sexual harrassment by a female employee that I had disciplined.

I was treated like a criminal and was assumed guilty until proven innocent....

Makes me sick to even think about it......

Its a really good thing all the interviews were via telephone......

Sturmgeist · Apr 29, 2012

I guess this should be a reminder for all of us males out there. I have had some experience like this as well (with race and gender issues). I had known this co-worker and worked well with her for over a year. We went out to lunch with others at least once or twice a month. No problems. All of a sudden I get put in a position where I am promoted ahead of her and I am accused of inappropriate racial and gender remarks? I was infuriated. I told the manager who accused me that I was not saying another word until HR was on the phone or there in person. Once the HR person was called, I told them that I had the right to defend myself against these alligations and I wanted a list of specific dates, times, quotes and other people present.

The HR rep agreed that people could not just sling accusations around without presenting proof and that the manager should have gathered this information before confronting me.

Needless to say all of the accusations were false and the only thing she could come up with was that I asked her (after she had cut her hair short and come back in a week later with it long again) if she had a wig or weave on? When I was going to be brought up on charges of inappropriate racial comments on that alone, I asked how that was inappropriate if I wasn't the only one who asked her that question? My manager in question and at least 3 other people (all white males) had asked her that question (before me!). After that little tid-bit of information came to light...everything was dropped. Of course nothing happened to the person who made these charges. About 2 weeks later I gave my 2 week notice (blindsided the execs who were counting on my presence to train several people (including the accuser) on a very important skill (for which they had no one local to replace me and had to fly someone in from Flordia (to NC) to do the training over 4 weeks). That is when I took my career break and decided to follow my dream and become a nurse.

Needless to say, I learned a VERY valuable lesson over the course of a few days. It all seems impossible to happen...until it happens to you and you are being accused of being a sexist, racist and bigoted man. I was told that I was intimidating due to my height (like I can control that), my sex (again, what can I do about that) and my former military background (b/c I like to wear my hair short still). Take note of this men...you don't need to be cold at work...but please just be careful!

bigboi · Apr 29, 2012

One any given shift that I work on, I am the only guy. I heard about women periods and all kinds of language that would make the average man who doesn't work with me gasp for air. At first I had to let them know that I'm not one of the girls, but over time I came to understand the culture and conformed to it. It really gave me a different perspective on women for sure.

mindlor · Apr 29, 2012

One reason I became a nurse is to work with women. Not cruisin for girls thing, I just really really like women....I dunno.....

ZenLover, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 29, 2012

I am not a man, obviously, but agree double standard exists and not just in nursing....but not just for men. What I have learned over the years after being inappropriately treated with no where to turn, and being falsely accused is that the system does not work. In the end you have to behave and treat others professionally at all times. This will not protect you 100% of the time, but you can not give into the ridiculous game of pointing fingers or be scared to stand up for what is right. At the end of the day it is you looking at you in the mirror...live up to that image in a professional way and set the standard. If others chose not to follow suit or act as though you are not one of them b/c you refuse to laugh at a crass joke that is their problem. Lie down with dogs you get fleas...same goes with cats that have fleas, so it doesn't matter what sex you are.

butterfliesandzebras · Apr 29, 2012

I ....Needless to say, I learned a VERY valuable lesson over the course of a few days. It all seems impossible to happen...until it happens to you and you are being accused of being a sexist, racist and bigoted man. I was told that I was intimidating due to my height (like I can control that), my sex (again, what can I do about that) and my former military background (b/c I like to wear my hair short still). Take note of this men...you don't need to be cold at work...but please just be careful!

Wow, double whammy! Racist and sexual harass! I'm glad you got through it. I served twenty years in the Navy and while stationed on ships, with all male crew, of course no problems in that regard. However, when serving on shore duty, it was unavoidable to work with female sailors. Learned my lesson quick about getting involved in shady areas of topics. All is good and joking until you have to give orders or correct behavior. Then it all changes. The good thing is, as it seems in your case, they are too impulsive, and don't plan it through. They think only about the accusation itself and forget about the holes in the story. Just gotta be careful, and don't joke, and avoid situations. Loose canons!

PMFB-RN, RN · Apr 30, 2012

Wow, that last part scared the crap out of me. I can't believe you couldn't just point to your schedule and say "I was never in the hospital when she was and I was out of town (here is my gas receipt etc) when the alleged assault took place."

*** Ya that sounds obvious but at the time I was being questioned they wouldn't tell me what specific patient we were talking about nor the time frame in questions. Lot's of "have you ever" and "do you ever" and "is it your practice to.....". They asked me to give a demonstration of how I listen to breath & heart sounds on a female with large breasts. Once I figured out what they were asking about I told them that while it was true I very much enjoyed fondeling breasts, it was absolutly no fun unless I had been specificaly invited to do so and in an appropiate enviroment (like on a date with or at home with my wife). I actually got a chuckle from them and it relieved a lot of the tension.

I am not sure how I would have handled that situation after that. I think I would have had a hard time working with that Nurse Manager again.

*** Oh ya I was out of there.

Thujone · Apr 30, 2012

Interesting that you guys have had these problems with sexual harassment. My problem is that I am gay until proven straight, lol. I had a patient claim that I had stuck my finger in his bottom, and when he told me to stop, I did it harder. None of that was true of course, I was simply wiping his butt clean, and the patient was known for his difficulty to deal with. Luckily, this happened during my orientation, so I had another CNA to stand as a witness. However, the DON and the nurse administrator still had to have a meeting with me during work, and question me about the whole thing.

grpman · Apr 30, 2012

Umm, how is it these lovely girls, including the instructor, are privy to the fact you are well endowed? Or was that just a general question, obviously meant to embarrass you, just thrown out there? Either way, it's all about timing; if you joke around with a female student today, she's cool with it, but tomorrow, either post or pre-test stress, she is looking to hang u by the balls! They are loose canons, just avoid such joking altogether, don't get wrapped up in their webs.

Lol. I thought of how that sounded but was hoping everyone would get what I was saying. I will elaborate so minds won't wander. The instructor in OB was making sure that everyone knew that sex wouldn't hurt the baby even if a man is well endowed (although this was phrased very tastefully). So jokes in the class started being made and someone looked at me and asked, with the class listening, if I could hurt the baby. Again, it was funny, and I wasn't bothered. However, it could be a real problem given a role reversal or another man with different feelings.

Sturmgeist · Apr 30, 2012

Ah, okay. So they were stating that you were going to have sex with the baby. That is a huge relief. Sex before birth won't hurt the baby. Okay. Still inappropriate, just not as nearly as inappropriate as before.

Still be very careful my friend. I have had it happen to me, and seen it happen to others...everything is fine as long as everyone gets along...as soon as someone falls out of favor (you)...then they will use everything you have said (doesn't matter if they laughed, or if they started the conversation) against you...and you have to defend why you just didn't walk away.

MN-Nurse, ASN, RN · May 1, 2012

I'm really not going anywhere with this other than I'm really curious what you think. Let me know.

Men and women are different. Film at 11.