Does my RACE matter when applying to Nursing Programs?

hardwrkingmama · Jun 25, 2015

I totally agree. I don't favor affirmative action, it is just discrimination in reverse and sows resentment.
My daughter's friend was one fourth Mexican, a blue-eyed blond actually. She always put Hispanic on all applications, thinking it would help her.
Ridiculous, if you ask me

The greatest benefactor of Affirmative Action are white women. This is one of the first things I learned in my Sociology class. There was a very good article about it in Time Magazine a couple of years ago.

keeponPUSHING · Jun 25, 2015

I WISH i could say NOOOOOO girl! of course NOT! But honestly, that is NOT the world we live in. It will ALWAYS be a lingering issue...especially if u live in the south. But don't be discouraged! If ur school is in a big city then u have a better chance of getting in and by without being targeted. I went to school in a small country town of Odessa,TX. Experienced racism from a white and Hispanic professor, as did the two other black girls in my class... even had a Mexican lunch lady in the hospital cafeteria picking on me for NO reason whatsoever! ...only to later be told by her coworker that she said she "hates black people". The co-worker that told me found it offensive and reported her for it bcz her son in law was black and she noticed how the lady had been treating me. Granted, I was shocked that she told me what the lady said but little did she know I couldn't care less that she hated me because I wld be graduating with high honors while she would be scooping chicken for a living the rest of her life bitter about other peoples success. Good is not enough, u have to do GREATER than the rest. But its possible. Keep on pushing :cool:

Emergent, RN · Jun 25, 2015

Now folks on Facebook are posting the Confederate flag, and saying that they're never going to shop at Walmart again because Walmart won't be stocking them, and Walmart is tromping on their rights. :wacky: Good Grief. Uh, hello, the Confederates started a war to preserve States Rights to keep slavery legal you idiots. And Walmart sucks, they treat their employees like crappola. Is there no sensible middle ground to be had in America today?

Psata · Jun 25, 2015

The greatest benefactor of Affirmative Action are white women. This is one of the first things I learned in my Sociology class. There was a very good article about it in Time Magazine a couple of years ago.

A fact that most fail to comprehend. A large number of tertiary institutions grant extra points for incoming freshman due to "legacy", the mere fact that a parent/parents graduated from that institution. Recruited athletes typically also have a leg up on the competition during the admission process. In-State student typically are favoured more than out of state applicants at most State Flagship Universities. Are these scenarios reverse discrimination?

These days, Asian students are being shunned at a lot of prestigious, highly ranked Universities (especially STEM-related research Universities) due to their superior SAT/ACT scores, GPA and outstanding ECs. I have never heard a white person saying it is unfair to discriminate against Asians, since they stand to benefit from such discrimination during the admission process. At UC Berkeley, with over 35% Asians, if the system was left unchecked, probably 80% of the student body at Berkeley (and the other top UCs) would be Asians.

The realities are, diversity, whether based on race or geographical factors, are reasonable considerations during the admission process. There are Engineering schools that actively seek out women applicants to their Engineering program. To the OP, you should apply to a wide range of Nursing programs and do become attached to any one school. Irrespective of your race, applying to nursing school will be a highly competitive process in and by itself. The fact that you have completed both a Bachelor's and Masters degree, shows that race was not a hinderance and might have helped. Good luck!

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 25, 2015

Here's a thought: nursing is primarily women. It's a mix of races, of course, but overwhelmingly women. Is everyone here who is female and earned a spot in a competitive nursing program by having great grades, recommendations, etc willing to give up that spot to a male because...you know...there are far fewer of them in nursing? That if there are 100 applicants for 20 seats, and 10 of those applicants are male, that 10 seats should go to the males and 10 to the females? Don't take the highest scores, no....take the gender consideration first. Fair....right?

Any takers on this?

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 25, 2015

See, I don't understand how slavery is a moot point just because it's not occurring here in that form at this time. I do not understand why it's so easy to push aside the long lasting effects of slavery on people. Cultures and attitudes live on in people even when systems are abolished (Dylann Roof?). Actually I'd argue that it's as insidious as ever. I acknowledge that Jewish people have faced sick atrocities and are still discriminated against. Anyone who denies that is a fool.
Anyways my point is not to compare histories and see which was worse--but your comment about being enslaved in this country vs not is a good one bc it does make a difference, imo. Being enslaved in America and living in America as descendents of those folks is different from being enslaved in America and then living in a country outside of America, as a general example. We all know slavery is entrenched in the history of this country and in the constitution no matter what bills or amendments have been passed--the damage was done and as they say, a system will ultimately fail to help those it was never meant to protect.
I know a lot of people get frustrated when black people bring these points up because it seems like a cop out or an excuse for not working hard, because 'if everyone else was able to work hard and bounce from adversity, why didn't black people? why are black people still struggling? must mean they aint working hard like everyone else. they don't need affirmative action if they just work harder." Etc. But this isn't correct. When we can have honest discussions about why black folk are incarcerated more than whites for the same crimes, about why i am told to put my freaking initials on my resume to get a better chance at a job, when we can talk to our ancestors in the 40s, 50s 60s--very recent-- about redlining and how they were screwed trying to buy homes and how that has trickled down to their progeny, i could go on and on lol....yea. And even if I was the best at something, I'd still have to prove it. I can have a PhD and still be questioned about my intelligence or rights because of my race. It happens all the time. You have damning things like Reagans "welfare queen" and Daniel Patrick Moynihan blaming black poverty on black mothers and I just...can't. lol.
I'm sorry your husband was pushed aside for a black person with fewer qualifications (and just a point I thought about--qualifications are usually the best indicator of job performance and deservedness but the agency to grow and learn is just as important--in my opinion this isn't acknowledged enough in jobs, admissions, etc. but that's my opinion). I really am and I know that's frustrating. Depending on the agency, they either are gonna use the black guy as a pawn (oh we met our quota yay we don't respect him though because he didn't have the best qualifications but oh well) or perhaps they'll be decent and give him the proper respect he deserves as the person they hired and he'll have to earn respect through his work ethic too, like everyone else.
So with that, to answer your other post--it's happened. I went to one of the most prestigious universities in the world and that was always on the radar. You got here because you're black, never mind your qualifications. I honestly didn't care because once I got admission, I worked my tail off and focused on me and serving my city and scholastic community. And I killed it. I could care less that people thought I was here because of AA. And you know what? If they accepted me instead of another qualified white applicant because of AA, I still am unapologetic because I worked just as hard as anyone else, perhaps even harder because I faced that doubt. If I were passed on for a spot because of my race I'd be upset but I'd honestly say screw it and move on. Minorities have had to say screw it and move on for decades now from jobs they were qualified for and didn't get because they were not white. That's my honest take lol.
And as other posters have said, white women have benefited from AA. I do not believe that women could have just 'worked harder' to gain the same level of respect and access to opportunities as men in job and scholastic admissions--laws had to be passed and policies changed. I hear from women who were hired as a quota fulfillment and they took the job and worked their tails off to show they indeed deserved it, even if the people who hired them didn't feel that way in the first place.
I hope that all made sense and thank you for the response. I reread this and noticed I had some run on sentences--what can I say, I get impassioned sometimes :)
OP, apply to your schools and you will be absolutely fine.

Thank you for this; it's well thought-out and I appreciate the honesty. I highlighted some of your test, because that's the focus for my response: those comments actually demonstrate WHY Affirmative Action's time has come and gone. You may have the chops for the jobs you want, but you will still probably be viewed as a lesser candidate because of the fact that AA allows lesser applicants enrollment, lesser applicants opportunities even though they ARE lesser applicants....and solely because they are black. That is really my whole point. Eroc and I are obviously the most vocal advocates for the repeal of AA, as we are obviously tired of having a double standard (high for whites, lower for blacks) be the norm. It shouldn't be.

White women have absolutely benefited greatly, no doubt! And you know what? WOMEN now make up 51% of the country's population. NO minority there, and therefore IMHO no 'preference' ought to be afforded them either. Why is it such a horrible idea to have everyone be considered on his or her merits alone, compared equally, not favoring one over another on things that have no bearing on his or her ability to do a job or succeed in academics?

Yes, slavery happened. Yes, it was unfair to the extreme. YES, people of color (as were OTHER people who were WHITE but still deemed 'undesirable') were kept out of academic institutions and barred from social clubs and employment. But at what point are today's college applicants, tomorrow's, supposed to be done paying for those injustices that they had no part in? It seems to be the prevalent attitude on this thread that since injustices were done that FOREVERMORE, in perpetuity, there shall no longer be fairness given, that favoritism must be place, bonus/race points awarded. Forever.

Not long back there was some study or other (don't recall the specifics) in which Millennials were asked about racial discrimination as it applies to these very topics. And this young, tolerant, appropriately aware group of young people voiced their indignation that they were NOT all special and wonderful just as they were, that SOME of them were considered more special and more wonderful if they were the "right" race on the application. And they were pretty clear about intending to change that. I have no doubt that they will, eventually.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 25, 2015

I have never posted here but I felt compelled to after reading some of the replies. Why is everything that black people do in this country viewed as wrong? They don't get an education and white people are mad, call them lazy etc. Now when they do get an education we are also mad about that, saying they didn't deserve it?
It is no secret that black people have to overcome enormous obstacles in this country. The effects of legal segregation like redlining (as aspiringnursedd mentioned) are still seen today. When this country has made it so much harder for black people to succeed, shouldn't white people support black people for getting an education and beating all of the odds that were stacked against them?
btw I am white not that it really matters but I refuse to be blind to these kinds of things

With this bolded comment, it shows you have missed the entire point of the discussion.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 25, 2015

Umm... what are you talking about? This is the study, and in it the authors concluded that the motivations were racial through multiple metrics. The authors of that study have never published a follow up that blames AA. Here, you can check: Marianne Bertrand's publications, and Sendhil Mullainathan's publications.
Did you just... make all of that up?

No, not at all. Will have to do the work to dig up the info, as I'm working from memory of years ago, not instant at-my-fingertips links.

elkpark · Jun 25, 2015

A number of posters here have alluded to or outright talked about racial "quotas" in schools and employment, and schools or employers "having" to hire X number or percentage of minority or female applicants whether they want to or not because of established "quotas." I would just like to remind everyone that formal quotas were outlawed by the Supreme Court in 1978 in the Bakke case, and schools have had to fight in the courts multiple times since then to be able to even use race as a consideration at all in accepting applicants. THERE ARE NO "QUOTAS" and there haven't been for many years (although I can certainly understand the appeal of the idea to some people who may be looking for a comforting rationale for why they didn't get a job or school acceptance they wanted).

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 25, 2015

Here we go. People want to ignore the hundreds of years of ******** that people of color have had to go through and be so dismissive with their claims that white men are now the victims and let us all sing kumbaya and totally brush the fact that racism and inequality is still well and alive in America and white privilege does exist.
No offense, but whenever someone mentions their "black friend" I cringe. I also cringe when a non-POC claim that everything is equal and racism and discrimination against people of color died when Obama became president.
And I know that I will probably be accused of "pulling the race card" or "having a chip on my shoulder" or "playing victim" because when race and discrimination are discussed, too many white Americans wish to bury the heads in the sand, make everything about the white man's burden (bonus points for those who understand that reference) and how all of those blacks and other non-white people should just shut up because it is 2015 and...
*Sigh*
I just had to get it out there how arrogant and insensitive some of these posts come off.

Yes, here we go. If you were referring to me and my comment about my friend, I did not refer to "my black friend" as though I had a token one. I referred to a friend of mine, who is black, and therefore his race was entirely relevant to the story. In your phrasing, you are referring to "quiet" racism", and in mine, I am using his story as an example of the problem at hand. QUITE different.

Pulling the race card....well, let's see. Your argument for keeping AA is because of hundreds of years of inequality. Ok, valid point, and the reason AA was created. MY point is that it needs to stop, as the intent to equalize became abused to the point of allowing racism to simply move in the other direction.

I am hardly alone in my belief that I, my family, in this generation, should not be looked upon as having caused the grief of those who suffered slavery LONG before any of us here ever showed up. It isn't ARROGANCE that assumes that enough is enough, it's DISGUST at making reparations for things that weren't our fault, nor the fault of our parents, grandparents, etc.

At what point should those who ARE benefiting from low requirements, low expectations be accountable to make the same grades, etc so they can actually BE competitive with their non-black peers? Honest question: You said you got excellent grades, scores, applications, etc. I have no doubt of that. But you are saying you're ok with someone who did LESS than you, WAS less of an applicant, less of a student, etc be considered equally qualified with you when it comes to a placement you want? Let's go with the idea that you are white. Your application is exactly the same as it would be if you were black. But you DON'T get the same consideration, because...after all....the black person might have had slaves in her history several generations ago. Or maybe not, but doesn't matter, they automatically get the preference of assumption. Seriously doubt that would be just fine with you, sure isn't fine with me.

Insensitivity goes both ways. To tell people that because there were serious injustices done generations prior to their birth that now THEY must be held to blame, must be accountable for what other people did in history, that they must give up places in schools and jobs BECAUSE they are not the people who suffered generations ago....THAT seems wildly insensitive to me. Call it what you want, but racism is racism.

My white son is well-aware, having met/spoken with his college orientation group, that Affirmative Action is most certainly alive and well. Diverse group, yes....and clearly NOT all equally qualified to be there. Sad, really. Oh, and let's not forget all the scholarships he was NOT eligible for, because he was white. Barred from that opportunity. Nope, no White College Fund for him.

You want TRUE equality? Ok. YOU have had the opportunity for a great education and job opportunities; I hope that MY grandchildren will be able to get EQUAL opportunity with yours for their education, their future employment. That mine WON'T have to hear "but 150 years, 200 years ago it was very very unfair....and it's only been legally unfair against your race for several generations now....so you still lose".

It would seem, to some, that wanting my children/grandchildren/etc to be considered equal to yours is arrogant and insensitive. In MY view, those that feel I have no right to such a desire have a different word in play: "chutzpah".

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 25, 2015

A number of posters here have alluded to or outright talked about racial "quotas" in schools and employment, and schools or employers "having" to hire X number or percentage of minority or female applicants whether they want to or not because of established "quotas." I would just like to remind everyone that formal quotas were outlawed by the Supreme Court in 1978 in the Bakke case, and schools have had to fight in the courts multiple times since then to be able to even use race as a consideration at all in accepting applicants. THERE ARE NO "QUOTAS" and there haven't been for many years (although I can certainly understand the appeal of the idea to some people who may be looking for a comforting rationale for why they didn't get a job or school acceptance they wanted).

You're right, they no longer use the word "quota". But much like in bygone days when people of color were refused admission or employment because of any reason that could be presented (and all of it bogus) the words change, the meaning is the same.

And it IS perfectly legal, a la the Supreme Court, for any PRIVATE school (which I believe are the majority in this country, not public ones) to choose their admission criteria any darned way they wish. They are free to use race, gender, nationality, ANYTHING they want as a determining factor. And for most, you will still see those little 'check boxes' on the applications.

I remember a good many years ago there was a court case because an applicant for a spot in a graduate school felt he should have it because he was black--yes, quite serious--and he had been "disadvantaged"; he should be admitted. Went to the Supreme Court, which ruled that since he had graduated high school, successfully graduated college with a BS, and was now a reasonable applicant for graduate school, any "disadvantage" was long past. He was now to be considered the same as any other advanced schooling student. And yes, he and his backers decried the injustice of that.

I think I'm going to drop out of this now. I feel what I feel, I believe what I believe, it's a hot issue that no one is going to consider changing their opinions on based on this thread...so....I respectfully bow out.

LaneyB · Jun 25, 2015

I am really starting to take offense to the argument about POC having low requirements.

Can you not see that the playing field is not even? My youngest is going into sophomore year at a university. She is in engineering. She went to a great school in an upper income area. She took advanced classes and did amazing on her SAT and ACT. She skipped her first year of math and science at the college level because she tested out. She is a great student and will have awesome opportunities in life. She also had little adversity during her school years. Her food and clothing was provided entirely by parents so she did not have to have a job in addition to going to school. She was able to participate in summer educational enrichment activities which certainly gave her the edge over students who couldn't afford to do so.

To say that other applicants who did not have the same opportunities that she had are lower is so offensive to me. So if another student, perhaps a minority, had to also work full time in order to help his/her family pay bills or buy food then they are a lesser student because their grades are lower than my daughter's grades? Or somebody who had to help raise younger siblings and didn't have near as much time for school could have lower grades. I think it is so short-sighted to base ability soley on grades/test scores. And if I were on an admission committee I would consider other factors as well as GPA to get an overall picture of the student. And to judge the other students as not being equally qualified comes across as so elitist. How do you know all of the other student's qualifications? I think you are making many assumptions that do not give others the benefit of the doubt.