Hello All - I am searching for an honest opinion!!
I am currently in the process of applying for a few nursing programs around the Kansas City area! I have a BA and an MBA (neither related to nursing).
Upon applying to these programs, I worry that my gpa for my BA (3.2) may hinder my ability to get in! My MBA gpa is 4.0. Anyway, im hoping to get an interview with the schools I apply for, just because I think I can explain my desire to become a nurse a lot easier in person than on paper! But I am a little worried about going in for an interview!
I am an African American female, and I'm really not sure if that could potentially be a disadvantage. Just want to hear opinions. I am asking because one school I looked up was the University of Kansas nursing program. I would love to attend this one as I have heard it was a great school, but even just looking at the photos online of their nursing program, I don't see much diversity at all. It can sometimes be a bit discouraging.
I really think finding a program that values diversity not only with race but gender, previous schooling background, work experience, etc. would be beneficial! Any ideas on this? Thoughts? Advice on schools?
Hispanics come in all colors. It is an ethnicity, not a race.
Splitting hairs. The point was that the girl would be given preference points, have a favored consideration BECAUSE she checked the box for "Hispanic". And that is wrong.
For instance, in one study fake scholarship award letters were put in people's mailboxes, addressed to suggest it had been delivered to them by accident. Half had white-sounding names (something like Michael, though I don't recall the exact names) and half had black-sounding names (something like Jamal). Michael's scholarship award letter was forwarded to him at dramatically higher rates than Jamal's. A similar study sent out two identical resumes, differing only in their white-sounding and black-sounding names, and the white-sounding name got more calls for an interview. Academics, jobs, apartment applications... even "which race is more likely to get the death penalty." Seriously. The research is overwhelming.
Ah yes, those studies, I know them well. And also know that people are fond of twisting results to suit their own interpretation of what they really mean.
We have the scholarship letters being forwarded more often to the "white sounding" names than the "black sounding" ones. Some interpret this to mean a bias against blacks. But the administrators of the study interpretted this to mean annoyance/disgust at AA and the new bias against whites, once they followed up with the people involved. IOW, people forwarded those letters more frequently to who they thought were white recipients NOT because they disliked blacks or wanted to "keep them down", but because they wanted the whites to get a shot at that scholarship they knew was nowadays preferred for blacks. Simply fed up with AA and wanted the "non black sounding" person to have a chance.
And now let's get to the resume study and its results. Your assumption is that of many, that the black-sounding person didn't get the job solely because he or she was black, and therefore being discriminated against on the basis of color. But you would be wrong in that assumption: the administrators of the study followed up with those hiring managers to learn what their thought processes were, what their biases were, etc. Know what they discovered? That since AA was firmly in place, hiring managers KNEW that the black applicant may or may not really be qualified for the job. That the black applicant might have gotten into school on a lower rung of the scale....but the WHITE applicant had to do everything possible to prove himself worthy of that same school placement. The WHITE applicant was not preferred because he was white as a bigotry move, he was preferred because the assumption was that HE was a known quantity, but the black applicant was a wild card. Maybe worthy....maybe not. And the scales were tipped against those applicants because the bar was set at the 'less than' mark for them.
I am going to point out that the OP started this thread based on racial bias thinking the color of her skin would hurt her chances of getting into a school. Yet, it is the opposite. Despite her being, what seems to be more than qualified, she perceives her race to be a obstacle before even being presented with an obstacle related to her race.
That is one of many of the fundamental problems with the thinking of all sides of racial bias.
Really? If he has the grades, he has the chops needed to excel, but wasn't here at the time of the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's.....but wants to be recognized as having EARNED his achievements rather than have the assumption be it was handed to him because of his skin color....THAT reflects poorly on him? Absurd.
I think that if those who are benefiting from "preference points" REALLY wanted to be seen as equals, then they'd not only expect but DEMAND that the bar/standard be set for them exactly as it is for their non-minority (read: white male) counterparts. The fact that the white male is a minority when compared with all the rest of the "minorities" population is another story, but...it's there.
Why be ok accepting that the bar is lower, that it's ok to be 10-15 points less on anything, and it's ok "because they're black"? PrincessBride, who obviously worked her butt off to get the grades and merits she did, is pissed to discover that people do assume she got where she did because she's black. And rightly so...but until AA is repealed in EVERY State, and the standard is EQUAL for EVERYONE applying for enrollments....that doubt will ALWAYS be there.
You can't change people's minds to view Equal Opportunity as being equal simply by making it unequal in the OTHER direction.
People have posted examples of someone not getting a job because he's black, although he deserved it. Ok...how about my husband not getting a job because he's white? You heard me right: he deserved the job, but found out from the same kind of 'inside' track in that other story that it HAD to go to a black person. Male or female, they didn't care, but most definitely not white. How is THAT ok with anyone? That ISN'T racism of the very worst kind....qualified, but he's got the wrong skin color? Disgusting.
And why is it that only ONE race is the one to specifically benefit when it comes to 'minority' preference? Asians are most definitely a minority....but they have the same admission standards (grades/scores) that whites do. But not blacks. How are blacks not enraged at this? Well....some of them are, because they DO understand they will always be thought of as 'less than' because of that. And others are happy the way it is, because "hey, I got mine". Never mind someone else more qualified didn't.
People face discrimination everywhere. Whites, too, so I'm not interested in hearing about all the "preferences" of the past. How about "Irish Need Not Apply" and "No Jews Allowed"? White....but clearly not "preferred". No one is going to guarantee you a prejudice-free America, not going to happen. But why is it ok to only make it better (MUCH better) for this very specific group? Asians face discrimination, bigotry...but they don't have a special lower-aptitude bar to meet on their applications. No, they have to be the best to get in. But not the black applicants? How is this NOT disgusting?
AA will become a thing of the past, there is no doubt. But until it does, the answer to "does my race and/or gender matter in my consideration for college enrollment?" will always be YES: blacks preferred over whites, women over men.
Here's a thought: nursing is primarily women. It's a mix of races, of course, but overwhelmingly women. Is everyone here who is female and earned a spot in a competitive nursing program by having great grades, recommendations, etc willing to give up that spot to a male because...you know...there are far fewer of them in nursing? That if there are 100 applicants for 20 seats, and 10 of those applicants are male, that 10 seats should go to the males and 10 to the females? Don't take the highest scores, no....take the gender consideration first. Fair....right?
This is totally not in regard to my point if you meant to respond to me but ok. To be clear I mean that it is nice that he has so much to say about his merits and how he hates aa but were it not for things like aa that were born out of a larger social change he wouldn't have the opportunity to come late to the party and complain about the food while stuffing his face. I'm sure you'll have something to say about this post as well but you seem to be blinded by some emotion regarding this topic. I usually enjoy your posts and can understand them but not this go around.
This is totally not in regard to my point if you meant to respond to me but ok. To be clear I mean that it is nice that he has so much to say about his merits and how he hates aa but were it not for things like aa that were born out of a larger social change he wouldn't have the opportunity to come late to the party and complain about the food while stuffing his face. I'm sure you'll have something to say about this post as well but you seem to be blinded by some emotion regarding this topic. I usually enjoy your posts and can understand them but not this go around.
We are at decidedly different stances on this topic, that much is clear, but I don't believe I am any more emotional than anyone else on it. I feel strongly about it because I and my family have felt the sting of what some people like to call "reverse discrimination". Yet it is still plain old discrimination. Some like to say "until you are a person of color you cannot know" and I view that as nonsense, as bigotry appears in many forms, regardless of color, and I spoke on that.
I DO understand that if not for the civil rights movement, etc, that there would be no opportunity for something like AA to take root. I did not miss your point. I'm expanding beyond that, though, to make the point that while it DID have a place (I said this in earlier posts) AT ONE TIME, I don't believe it still does. And beyond THAT, if the point was really to gain a measure of equality in the consideration of enrollment and hiring, then the foundation of it needs to change drastically.
We cannot have a double standard for admissions: a high one for whites, a lower one for blacks. we cannot have quotas in place that require companies to hire a less-qualified candidate because she is black, when a very qualified white applicant is available. We do our business and academic community a huge disservice in demanding that the those less qualified be afforded positions they should not hold.
I get your point. I appreciate the sacrifices of the past. But I also believe that we have gone WRONG in this approach.
So yes, when the OP posts her concerns that she might not be afforded a spot in a nursing program despite being very well qualified....because she THINKS she might be refused because she's black despite ALL evidence to the contrary.....it does raise the ire.
She should be concerned if she was a white male. THEN she'd be at a disadvantage. That is the point.
I don't think it will be a disadvantage! if I am being frank it might turn out to be advantage if they need to meet a race quota. but also think of it like a buisness they want people with high gpas so they stay in good standing so focus on that. good luck.
I am going to point out that the OP started this thread based on racial bias thinking the color of her skin would hurt her chances of getting into a school. Yet, it is the opposite. Despite her being, what seems to be more than qualified, she perceives her race to be a obstacle before even being presented with an obstacle related to her race.
That is one of many of the fundamental problems with the thinking of all sides of racial bias.
So it's in her mind? Who knew we only had to click our heels and close our eyes to make it go away. When you have been discriminated against it isn't hard to think you may get discriminated against.
I find it strange that people object so strongly to points on admission being awarded for race, but most people don't seem to object to points awarded for legacy. I went to a state university that both parents and my sibling graduated from, and I was given points when I applied due to that fact. It was part of the whole package considered for admission. And I have no doubt that part of the reason my family was able to go to college is because we have benefitted from being white and middle-class. If my family had been enslaved for generations, and poor then we probably would be at a pretty significant disadvantage that IMO would need some correcting. So those points on my application weren't really based on merit.
I snicker to myself when I read white people complaining about reverse discrimination. I think it's usually complete hooey. I would love to see people back that up with some studies showing it is somehow a disadvantage in our society to be white.
I also don't believe that the only criteria that should matter are grades and test scores. What about talented children (of any race) who perhaps go to an underprivileged school? Or take a child who doesn't have family support, and maybe not enough food and resources, and yet works hard and manages to still get a decent GPA? Is the student who had very little adversity to deal with and got a higher GPA necessarily a better student? Mulitple factors need to be considered in admissions.
I snicker to myself when I read white people complaining about reverse discrimination. I think it's usually complete hooey. I would love to see people back that up with some studies showing it is somehow a disadvantage in our society to be white.
Did you post this comment with a straight face, totally serious...or were you still snickering? Because I cannot believe you fail to see a problem when a white person is pushed aside BECAUSE he is white, in favor of a black person who doesn't have the same level of qualification. Not rumor, it's known, and very well known....if you choose to pay attention.
I didn't copy your comments about legacy points because they don't apply to this topic, or are comparable to this situation. I suppose, if I had to choose an opinion on the matter, I'd have to say that ANYONE who has family who attended a particular institution has the same advantage as anyone else who attended the same institution. Everyone ELSE is at an "equal disadvantage", if you will. Not ideal, and I don't like the concept, but it is there just as much as AA is there.
Your family was not enslaved and your family had advantages that allowed them placement at that university, along with other family and future generations. That's great. While my family was not enslaved in this country in the 1800's, they surely had enough problems of their own running from pogroms, dictators, holocaust....and they most certainly didn't get any preference points when they got to these shores dirt poor and unwanted by the people claiming they were "more American" by virtue of having been here longer. They worked for what they got. They studied and put their smarts to use. They sure as hell didn't expect to have someone give them Bonus Points because they were Jewish! The whole argument of slavery is at this point moot. There haven't been African slaves in America for generations now. MY family sure as heck didn't enslave anyone and were never in the position to be 'legacy' anything; why am I and my family expected to "pay" for that today in the form of being refused admissions and jobs? This sits well with you?
Yes, multiple factors should always be considered in admissions. Awarding 'preference points' for merely being black does a disservice to anyone who DOES have merits and qualities in ADDITION to the base fact that they are black. Merit should be awarded...but by definition, 'merit' is earned.
I am going to point out that the OP started this thread based on racial bias thinking the color of her skin would hurt her chances of getting into a school. Yet, it is the opposite. Despite her being, what seems to be more than qualified, she perceives her race to be a obstacle before even being presented with an obstacle related to her race.
That is one of many of the fundamental problems with the thinking of all sides of racial bias.
when you're black and grow up being told xyz because you're black, and grow up seeing only white people in the media, and grow up feeling liked you're othered because those in power are white and tell you you're worthless and less than human (yes this still happens people)...yea. of course i'm going to see my race in every single thing i do. sorry if that's annoying and a fundamental problem with one side of 'racial bias', but it's the truth. i have to fend for myself and protect myself as a black person. i'm one of the most pleasant, cheerful people you could ever meet and race only comes up when it comes up; i don't treat people differently unless given a reason to but it's always on my mind because i am not the majority.
when you're black and grow up being told xyz because you're black, and grow up seeing only white people in the media, and grow up feeling liked you're othered because those in power are white and tell you you're worthless and less than human (yes this still happens people)...yea. of course i'm going to see my race in every single thing i do. sorry if that's annoying and a fundamental problem with one side of 'racial bias', but it's the truth. i have to fend for myself and protect myself as a black person. i'm one of the most pleasant, cheerful people you could ever meet and race only comes up when it comes up; i don't treat people differently unless given a reason to but it's always on my mind because i am not the majority.
What you say makes complete sense to me, and it's perfectly reasonable. We are each formed by our own experiences, and yours are as valid as anyone else's! I happen to be in an area where there is significant racial diversity, you really wouldn't see "only" any one kind of anything. That doesn't mean that no one I know experiences racial or religious bias, the point is we ALL have experienced it to one degree or another. You have been made to feel inferior at times, and have to stand up for yourself in the face of bigotry.
Knowing this, I'd like to ask you how you would feel if you knew people were assuming that you weren't a qualified applicant because you're black...NOT because you're inferior by race, but because the expectation is you probably benefited from Affirmative Action? That instead of letting your resume speak for itself, the assumption is you got there because of preferential treatment--the doubt is in place before you walk through the door?
I imagine you'd be just as mad as anyone else who felt they earned a spot, but I'd like your take on it, if you don't mind.
I been working in nursing department for 7 years as an African American male but I have not had any problems into I moved to the racist state of GA but most of the people that hold me back are other African Americans but most schools r racist but if you're smart don't not matter.
Emphasis is mine.
Oh good grief. So you're saying it DOES matter, right?
RNsRWe, ASN, RN
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Splitting hairs. The point was that the girl would be given preference points, have a favored consideration BECAUSE she checked the box for "Hispanic". And that is wrong.