Hello All - I am searching for an honest opinion!!
I am currently in the process of applying for a few nursing programs around the Kansas City area! I have a BA and an MBA (neither related to nursing).
Upon applying to these programs, I worry that my gpa for my BA (3.2) may hinder my ability to get in! My MBA gpa is 4.0. Anyway, im hoping to get an interview with the schools I apply for, just because I think I can explain my desire to become a nurse a lot easier in person than on paper! But I am a little worried about going in for an interview!
I am an African American female, and I'm really not sure if that could potentially be a disadvantage. Just want to hear opinions. I am asking because one school I looked up was the University of Kansas nursing program. I would love to attend this one as I have heard it was a great school, but even just looking at the photos online of their nursing program, I don't see much diversity at all. It can sometimes be a bit discouraging.
I really think finding a program that values diversity not only with race but gender, previous schooling background, work experience, etc. would be beneficial! Any ideas on this? Thoughts? Advice on schools?
Splitting hairs. The point was that the girl would be given preference points, have a favored consideration BECAUSE she checked the box for "Hispanic". And that is wrong.
That did not seem to be the point that poster was making. She seemed to making the point NOT that getting a break for being Hispanic was wrong, but that claiming to be Hispanic while being blonde and blue eyed was wrong. That was what I was addressing.
I am Hispanic. I did not check the Hispanic box because I believed I would be admitted purely on my merit alone. At the time, it didn't seem at all relevant.
Did you post this comment with a straight face, totally serious...or were you still snickering? Because I cannot believe you fail to see a problem when a white person is pushed aside BECAUSE he is white, in favor of a black person who doesn't have the same level of qualification. Not rumor, it's known, and very well known....if you choose to pay attention.
I didn't copy your comments about legacy points because they don't apply to this topic, or are comparable to this situation. I suppose, if I had to choose an opinion on the matter, I'd have to say that ANYONE who has family who attended a particular institution has the same advantage as anyone else who attended the same institution. Everyone ELSE is at an "equal disadvantage", if you will. Not ideal, and I don't like the concept, but it is there just as much as AA is there.
Your family was not enslaved and your family had advantages that allowed them placement at that university, along with other family and future generations. That's great. While my family was not enslaved in this country in the 1800's, they surely had enough problems of their own running from pogroms, dictators, holocaust....and they most certainly didn't get any preference points when they got to these shores dirt poor and unwanted by the people claiming they were "more American" by virtue of having been here longer. They worked for what they got. They studied and put their smarts to use. They sure as hell didn't expect to have someone give them Bonus Points because they were Jewish! The whole argument of slavery is at this point moot. There haven't been African slaves in America for generations now. MY family sure as heck didn't enslave anyone and were never in the position to be 'legacy' anything; why am I and my family expected to "pay" for that today in the form of being refused admissions and jobs? This sits well with you?
Yes, multiple factors should always be considered in admissions. Awarding 'preference points' for merely being black does a disservice to anyone who DOES have merits and qualities in ADDITION to the base fact that they are black. Merit should be awarded...but by definition, 'merit' is earned.
See, I don't understand how slavery is a moot point just because it's not occurring here in that form at this time. I do not understand why it's so easy to push aside the long lasting effects of slavery on people. Cultures and attitudes live on in people even when systems are abolished (Dylann Roof?). Actually I'd argue that it's as insidious as ever. I acknowledge that Jewish people have faced sick atrocities and are still discriminated against. Anyone who denies that is a fool.
Anyways my point is not to compare histories and see which was worse--but your comment about being enslaved in this country vs not is a good one bc it does make a difference, imo. Being enslaved in America and living in America as descendents of those folks is different from being enslaved in America and then living in a country outside of America, as a general example. We all know slavery is entrenched in the history of this country and in the constitution no matter what bills or amendments have been passed--the damage was done and as they say, a system will ultimately fail to help those it was never meant to protect.
I know a lot of people get frustrated when black people bring these points up because it seems like a cop out or an excuse for not working hard, because 'if everyone else was able to work hard and bounce from adversity, why didn't black people? why are black people still struggling? must mean they aint working hard like everyone else. they don't need affirmative action if they just work harder." Etc. But this isn't correct. When we can have honest discussions about why black folk are incarcerated more than whites for the same crimes, about why i am told to put my freaking initials on my resume to get a better chance at a job, when we can talk to our ancestors in the 40s, 50s 60s--very recent-- about redlining and how they were screwed trying to buy homes and how that has trickled down to their progeny, i could go on and on lol....yea. And even if I was the best at something, I'd still have to prove it. I can have a PhD and still be questioned about my intelligence or rights because of my race. It happens all the time. You have damning things like Reagans "welfare queen" and Daniel Patrick Moynihan blaming black poverty on black mothers and I just...can't. lol.
I'm sorry your husband was pushed aside for a black person with fewer qualifications (and just a point I thought about--qualifications are usually the best indicator of job performance and deservedness but the agency to grow and learn is just as important--in my opinion this isn't acknowledged enough in jobs, admissions, etc. but that's my opinion). I really am and I know that's frustrating. Depending on the agency, they either are gonna use the black guy as a pawn (oh we met our quota yay we don't respect him though because he didn't have the best qualifications but oh well) or perhaps they'll be decent and give him the proper respect he deserves as the person they hired and he'll have to earn respect through his work ethic too, like everyone else.
So with that, to answer your other post--it's happened. I went to one of the most prestigious universities in the world and that was always on the radar. You got here because you're black, never mind your qualifications. I honestly didn't care because once I got admission, I worked my tail off and focused on me and serving my city and scholastic community. And I killed it. I could care less that people thought I was here because of AA. And you know what? If they accepted me instead of another qualified white applicant because of AA, I still am unapologetic because I worked just as hard as anyone else, perhaps even harder because I faced that doubt. If I were passed on for a spot because of my race I'd be upset but I'd honestly say screw it and move on. Minorities have had to say screw it and move on for decades now from jobs they were qualified for and didn't get because they were not white. That's my honest take lol.
And as other posters have said, white women have benefited from AA. I do not believe that women could have just 'worked harder' to gain the same level of respect and access to opportunities as men in job and scholastic admissions--laws had to be passed and policies changed. I hear from women who were hired as a quota fulfillment and they took the job and worked their tails off to show they indeed deserved it, even if the people who hired them didn't feel that way in the first place.
I hope that all made sense and thank you for the response. I reread this and noticed I had some run on sentences--what can I say, I get impassioned sometimes :)
OP, apply to your schools and you will be absolutely fine.
I have never posted here but I felt compelled to after reading some of the replies. Why is everything that black people do in this country viewed as wrong? They don't get an education and white people are mad, call them lazy etc. Now when they do get an education we are also mad about that, saying they didn't deserve it?
It is no secret that black people have to overcome enormous obstacles in this country. The effects of legal segregation like redlining (as aspiringnursedd mentioned) are still seen today. When this country has made it so much harder for black people to succeed, shouldn't white people support black people for getting an education and beating all of the odds that were stacked against them?
btw I am white not that it really matters but I refuse to be blind to these kinds of things
I have never posted here but I felt compelled to after reading some of the replies. Why is everything that black people do in this country viewed as wrong? They don't get an education and white people are mad, call them lazy etc. Now when they do get an education we are also mad about that, saying they didn't deserve it?
It is no secret that black people have to overcome enormous obstacles in this country. The effects of legal segregation like redlining (as aspiringnursedd mentioned) are still seen today. When this country has made it so much harder for black people to succeed, shouldn't white people support black people for getting an education and beating all of the odds that were stacked against them?
btw I am white not that it really matters but I refuse to be blind to these kinds of things
Ah, I believe this is an unnecessarily inflammatory post. I vote we shun.
when you're black and grow up being told xyz because you're black, and grow up seeing only white people in the media, and grow up feeling liked you're othered because those in power are white and tell you you're worthless and less than human (yes this still happens people)...yea. of course i'm going to see my race in every single thing i do. sorry if that's annoying and a fundamental problem with one side of 'racial bias', but it's the truth. i have to fend for myself and protect myself as a black person. i'm one of the most pleasant, cheerful people you could ever meet and race only comes up when it comes up; i don't treat people differently unless given a reason to but it's always on my mind because i am not the majority.
I agree, trust me your not the only person to be told they are worthless a thousand times…i understand.
We are emotional human beings and built exactly as you describe. Our memories dictate our prejudices, but that is still the problem. And excepting that is a step toward realizing it needs to be changed. Holding on to those prejudices is what keeps it alive from all sides.
Not saying it is easy.
One race does not have the absolute right to claiming discrimination, no matter what side of the scale they are on.
See, I don't understand how slavery is a moot point just because it's not occurring here in that form at this time. I do not understand why it's so easy to push aside the long lasting effects of slavery on people. Cultures and attitudes live on in people even when systems are abolished (Dylann Roof?). Actually I'd argue that it's as insidious as ever. I acknowledge that Jewish people have faced sick atrocities and are still discriminated against. Anyone who denies that is a fool.
Anyways my point is not to compare histories and see which was worse--but your comment about being enslaved in this country vs not is a good one bc it does make a difference, imo. Being enslaved in America and living in America as descendents of those folks is different from being enslaved in America and then living in a country outside of America, as a general example. We all know slavery is entrenched in the history of this country and in the constitution no matter what bills or amendments have been passed--the damage was done and as they say, a system will ultimately fail to help those it was never meant to protect.
I know a lot of people get frustrated when black people bring these points up because it seems like a cop out or an excuse for not working hard, because 'if everyone else was able to work hard and bounce from adversity, why didn't black people? why are black people still struggling? must mean they aint working hard like everyone else. they don't need affirmative action if they just work harder." Etc. But this isn't correct. When we can have honest discussions about why black folk are incarcerated more than whites for the same crimes, about why i am told to put my freaking initials on my resume to get a better chance at a job, when we can talk to our ancestors in the 40s, 50s 60s--very recent-- about redlining and how they were screwed trying to buy homes and how that has trickled down to their progeny, i could go on and on lol....yea. And even if I was the best at something, I'd still have to prove it. I can have a PhD and still be questioned about my intelligence or rights because of my race. It happens all the time. You have damning things like Reagans "welfare queen" and Daniel Patrick Moynihan blaming black poverty on black mothers and I just...can't. lol.
I'm sorry your husband was pushed aside for a black person with fewer qualifications (and just a point I thought about--qualifications are usually the best indicator of job performance and deservedness but the agency to grow and learn is just as important--in my opinion this isn't acknowledged enough in jobs, admissions, etc. but that's my opinion). I really am and I know that's frustrating. Depending on the agency, they either are gonna use the black guy as a pawn (oh we met our quota yay we don't respect him though because he didn't have the best qualifications but oh well) or perhaps they'll be decent and give him the proper respect he deserves as the person they hired and he'll have to earn respect through his work ethic too, like everyone else.
So with that, to answer your other post--it's happened. I went to one of the most prestigious universities in the world and that was always on the radar. You got here because you're black, never mind your qualifications. I honestly didn't care because once I got admission, I worked my tail off and focused on me and serving my city and scholastic community. And I killed it. I could care less that people thought I was here because of AA. And you know what? If they accepted me instead of another qualified white applicant because of AA, I still am unapologetic because I worked just as hard as anyone else, perhaps even harder because I faced that doubt. If I were passed on for a spot because of my race I'd be upset but I'd honestly say screw it and move on. Minorities have had to say screw it and move on for decades now from jobs they were qualified for and didn't get because they were not white. That's my honest take lol.
And as other posters have said, white women have benefited from AA. I do not believe that women could have just 'worked harder' to gain the same level of respect and access to opportunities as men in job and scholastic admissions--laws had to be passed and policies changed. I hear from women who were hired as a quota fulfillment and they took the job and worked their tails off to show they indeed deserved it, even if the people who hired them didn't feel that way in the first place.
I hope that all made sense and thank you for the response. I reread this and noticed I had some run on sentences--what can I say, I get impassioned sometimes :)
OP, apply to your schools and you will be absolutely fine.
I am enjoying read your posts, and i agree on everything you posted to a degree.
I apologize if this sounded "inflammatory" I was just upset reading some of the replies and like I said I really just felt compelled to post
I can understand that you were upset. Personally, I often post crazy **** when I'm mad. Sometimes, when the issue is one that can be so emotional and personal, I find it best to take a few deep breaths and remember that the motivations of the posters are usually positive. The tone here has been very careful in order to avoid letting this thread explode into race-baiting, and I think that's a good thing.
Ah yes, those studies, I know them well. And also know that people are fond of twisting results to suit their own interpretation of what they really mean.
...
And now let's get to the resume study and its results. Your assumption is that of many, that the black-sounding person didn't get the job solely because he or she was black, and therefore being discriminated against on the basis of color. But you would be wrong in that assumption: the administrators of the study followed up with those hiring managers to learn what their thought processes were, what their biases were, etc. Know what they discovered? That since AA was firmly in place, hiring managers KNEW that the black applicant may or may not really be qualified for the job. That the black applicant might have gotten into school on a lower rung of the scale....but the WHITE applicant had to do everything possible to prove himself worthy of that same school placement. The WHITE applicant was not preferred because he was white as a bigotry move, he was preferred because the assumption was that HE was a known quantity, but the black applicant was a wild card. Maybe worthy....maybe not. And the scales were tipped against those applicants because the bar was set at the 'less than' mark for them.
I agree, trust me your not the only person to be told they are worthless a thousand times…i understand.
We are emotional human beings and built exactly as you describe. Our memories dictate our prejudices, but that is still the problem. And excepting that is a step toward realizing it needs to be changed. Holding on to those prejudices is what keeps it alive from all sides.
Not saying it is easy.
One race does not have the absolute right to claiming discrimination, no matter what side of the scale they are on.
I thank you for your response and for the other one as well. Can you go more into the part about memories dictating prejudices and how that's the problem? Do you mean problem in terms of combating racism? Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying before writing another response lol.
Also, just a follow-up question @RNsRWe --let's say we were in the 1940s (during post WW2 women's rights era for instance), and your husband was up for a job. And was clearly the best qualified. If he was turned down for a woman with way fewer qualifications because of a policy passed to give women (not as knowledgeable but just as competent and able to learn) equal chances at jobs as men, would that be as upsetting as what you all just experienced? I know I'd personally be happy for that chance even if people looked down on me for being a woman in a position that "should have" gone to a man. Because I am going to work for it. And I deserve the chance because for years, men have told me that I wasn't good enough or smart enough because of my sex and gender. See what I'm trying to get at?
I know folks may say 'but we're not in the 40s! That's an unfair analogy. 2015 is not the same.' Alas, it still goes on--although not as overt. I know it and live it. And this is coming from a reasonably privileged black woman (education). Others aren't as fortunate.
Here we go. People want to ignore the hundreds of years of ******** that people of color have had to go through and be so dismissive with their claims that white men are now the victims and let us all sing kumbaya and totally brush the fact that racism and inequality is still well and alive in America and white privilege does exist.
No offense, but whenever someone mentions their "black friend" I cringe. I also cringe when a non-POC claim that everything is equal and racism and discrimination against people of color died when Obama became president.
And I know that I will probably be accused of "pulling the race card" or "having a chip on my shoulder" or "playing victim" because when race and discrimination are discussed, too many white Americans wish to bury the heads in the sand, make everything about the white man's burden (bonus points for those who understand that reference) and how all of those blacks and other non-white people should just shut up because it is 2015 and...
*Sigh*
I just had to get it out there how arrogant and insensitive some of these posts come off.
Horseshoe, BSN, RN
5,879 Posts
That did not seem to be the point that poster was making. She seemed to making the point NOT that getting a break for being Hispanic was wrong, but that claiming to be Hispanic while being blonde and blue eyed was wrong. That was what I was addressing.
I am Hispanic. I did not check the Hispanic box because I believed I would be admitted purely on my merit alone. At the time, it didn't seem at all relevant.