Doctorate for Advanced Practice Nursing??

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jan 22, 2006

I have to wonder if part of the push behind this that nobody will admit is desire to be a 'Dr.' to have some parity with MDs and DOs. What do you all think? I don't know that's really necessary, but part of a larger trend. For example the pharmacists and physical therapists have doctorates now. I see it as more of a competitive weeding process and a touch of overkill than a necessity. Of course I'm watching this because I eventually want to be a NP. Opinions?

Editorial Team / Admin · Jan 22, 2006

i read an article in a nurse practitioner journal a few days ago that said there is a move for all advanced practice nurses to be educated at the doctoral level by 2015. (it wouldn't affect anyone already in an advanced practice position.) what do you think of this? is it likely to fly?
i have very mixed feeling about this. does anyone have a good understanding of the implications? how would it affect msn preparation, etc?

hello, bookwormom,

yes, there is the proposal. and, much discussion and debate, pro and con.

here is a link discussing this topic (you might need to register to view....it is free):

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/453247_1

and, here are two links about the pros and cons (again, you may need to register to view):

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/514544?

src=mphttp://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/514543?src=mp

and, yet another:

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/media/newsreleases/2005/ccnednp.htm

i have my own ideas about this and am still gathering information.

Trauma Columnist · Jan 22, 2006

I am finishing a post-MSN APN in May 06. While I think a DNP is a nicety, am not sure if it is needed at this point. However, the links Siri posted are well worth your time to get differing viewpoints.

1Tulip · Jan 24, 2006

It would be a ghetto degree, in the sense that it would be exclusive for NP's. It suggests, for example, that Clinical Nurse Specialists can't be educated to the level of a practice doctorate.

Alternatively, it suggests that NP's can't make it in a research based doctoral program.

Either way I think it reflects badly on NP's.

Maybe someone can explain to me why NP's can't devote 3 to 5 years to pushing the envelope of our nursing knowledge and writing original research papers. They want to be called "Doctor" but they... don't want to spend the time, and do the hard work?

Can someone explain why a quick and dirty doctorate serves the profession?

llg, PhD, RN · Jan 24, 2006

It would be a ghetto degree, in the sense that it would be exclusive for NP's. It suggests, for example, that Clinical Nurse Specialists can't be educated to the level of a practice doctorate.
Alternatively, it suggests that NP's can't make it in a research based doctoral program.
Either way I think it reflects badly on NP's.
Maybe someone can explain to me why NP's can't devote 3 to 5 years to pushing the envelope of our nursing knowledge and writing original research papers. They want to be called "Doctor" but they... don't want to spend the time, and do the hard work?
Can someone explain why a quick and dirty doctorate serves the profession?

Interesting post. Thanks for offering that perspective. I haven't given this particular degree much thought as I am not a NP. But as a general rule, I don't like the proliferation of all these different degrees within nursing. We should try to maintain some consistency with other academic disciplines and quit adding to the confusion surrounding all the different letters behind people's names.

I get the definite sense that many of these new degrees are established because a "new" degree and/or title brings in funding and gives the people running the program an opportunity to writie articles and speak at conferences. Working within the traditional hierarchy of degrees to expand and/or improve your programs in less glamorous and offers fewer oportunities for funding, fame, and glory.

Personally ... as a CNS, I opted for a PhD and don't regret it one bit. People know what the letters stand for and where I stand within the academic world. I wouldn't do it any other way.

llg

grannynurse FNP student · Jan 24, 2006

I am confused. The University of South Florida has a doctoral program for the advance practice of nursing (I think I have gotten it right). They state that is aimed at preparing teachers for nursing programs within the state of Florida. What is the difference. I was in a program in NYS, that discussed making an MSN as the entry level for professional nurses. All others would be PhDs. We were told this had been under discussion for a number of years. I do support one entry level, instead of the current three. And I support MSNs for Nurse Practitioners.

Grannynurse:balloons:

1Tulip · Jan 24, 2006

Yeah, the entry level into nursing is a big issue. I don't know how I feel about it. The proliferation of letters is another issue, but I agree with llg about that. (Why would I want a degree I had to explain to everyone???)

Trauma Columnist · Jan 25, 2006

Actually, the DNP can be awarded to a CNS...my college of nursing is starting a DNP next year.

llg, PhD, RN · Jan 25, 2006

Actually, the DNP can be awarded to a CNS...my college of nursing is starting a DNP next year.

Yes ... but anyone who gets a DNP will have to spend the next 10 years explaining to people what the letters after her name means ... and may have to explain and defend that degree to people who assume that it is "not as good" as a "real" doctorate. Also, people without PhD's are limited in their abilitly to serve on dissertation committees for PhD students and sometimes to serve on faculties.

While the program may be every bit as rigorous and high quality as any, it will have to first demonstrate that quality before it will be given the same respect as the traditional degrees. That could take years .... and in a world in which several schools are coming up with new degrees, it is confusing and may cause people to scoff at all the experimentation with new degrees and titles. Also, the competition to become the "standard" degree could be fierce. I wouldn't want to make that kind of committment to get a degree that might not survive the competitive market.

My point is that nursing needs to stop inventing all kinds of new degrees that cause confusion and dilute our message that we are as educated as any other profession ... and re-focus at strenghtening the programs that offer the standard degrees that are awarded by (and respected by) all the other disciplines.

If the profession feels it needs a doctoral level practice degree, it should use the one it already has (DNS) instead of making up new ones every couple of years. I understand why they don't -- it's because the DNS has become increasing like a PhD in it's research focus, blurring the line between the two. They should fix that problem and reach a consensus on the titling for 2 doctorates -- a research one (PhD) and a practice one (?). Then everyone should stick with just those 2 options and quit making up new ones that muddy the waters.

llg

1Tulip · Jan 25, 2006

Llg said it perfectly.

bookwormom · Jan 25, 2006

This is just a side comment in reference to the names of different doctorates. I am enrolled in a doctoral program in nursing in South Africa that awards a D Litt et Phil. This is not an uncommon degree overseas. I do anticipate some questions about it. I imagine that there are also other designations in other countries.

It is interesting to look at the huge variety of doctoral degrees in other fields. One can earn a PhD in education, or an EdD. In my experience, the PhD is more prestigious and useful. Still, in education, a doctorate of any type is far more valuable than a Masters Degree. I teach in a small rural college and even here, there is a tremendous emphasis on obtaining a doctorate. I cannot overemphasize the pressure.

I think that in adition to the academic factors, where the doctorate is expected for teaching, nursing is pushing for the DNP in an effort be comparable to pharmacy and some other professions, and also to help practitioners get reimbursed.