Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency, Education, Informatics.

Dear PAEA member:

The participants in the PA Clinical Doctorate Summit, held late last week in Atlanta, have released a set of preliminary recommendations, as follows:

1. The PA profession endorses the master's degree as the single, entry-level, and terminal degree for the profession.

2. The PA profession opposes the entry-level, PA-specific clinical doctorate.

3. The PA profession supports advanced professional development and education, including the option of non-profession-specific postgraduate doctorates.

4. The PA profession should explore with physician education groups the development of a model for advanced standing for PAs who desire to become physicians (sometimes called a "bridge program.")

A more complete report, including final recommendations, will be released by the end of the week. Please see the Informing the Clinical Doctorate page on the PAEA Web site for the full statement from the summit and check back periodically for updated information as it is released. You can also see a real-time record of the summit on a special dedicated Web site produced by Innovation Labs, the consulting firm that facilitated the decision-making process.

The final summit recommendations will now go to the national PA organizations for debate and action. The summit was financially supported by AAPA and PAEA but the activities of the summit were independent of either organization.

Summit participants included practicing PAs, PA educators, PA students, physicians from allopathic and osteopathic medicine, workforce experts, and representatives of physical therapy, nursing, and other professions. They were charged to address the question, "Is the clinical doctorate appropriate to the profession as an entry-level degree, as a postgraduate degree, or not at all?" The group spent two days examining the issue of the PA clinical doctorate from many angles, through a series of small-group and other interactive processes.

The comments section of the Clinical Doctorate page of the PAEA Web site is still open for comments; please share your thoughts there if you like.

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300 N. Washington Street, Suite 505, Alexandria, VA 22314-2544

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Geriatrics.
Dear PAEA member:

The participants in the PA Clinical Doctorate Summit, held late last week in Atlanta, have released a set of preliminary recommendations, as follows:

1. The PA profession endorses the master's degree as the single, entry-level, and terminal degree for the profession.

2. The PA profession opposes the entry-level, PA-specific clinical doctorate.

3. The PA profession supports advanced professional development and education, including the option of non-profession-specific postgraduate doctorates.

4. The PA profession should explore with physician education groups the development of a model for advanced standing for PAs who desire to become physicians (sometimes called a "bridge program.")A more complete report, including final recommendations, will be released by the end of the week. Please see the Informing the Clinical Doctorate page on the PAEA Web site for the full statement from the summit and check back periodically for updated information as it is released. You can also see a real-time record of the summit on a special dedicated Web site produced by Innovation Labs, the consulting firm that facilitated the decision-making process.

The final summit recommendations will now go to the national PA organizations for debate and action. The summit was financially supported by AAPA and PAEA but the activities of the summit were independent of either organization.

Summit participants included practicing PAs, PA educators, PA students, physicians from allopathic and osteopathic medicine, workforce experts, and representatives of physical therapy, nursing, and other professions. They were charged to address the question, "Is the clinical doctorate appropriate to the profession as an entry-level degree, as a postgraduate degree, or not at all?" The group spent two days examining the issue of the PA clinical doctorate from many angles, through a series of small-group and other interactive processes.

The comments section of the Clinical Doctorate page of the PAEA Web site is still open for comments; please share your thoughts there if you like.

Click here to unsubscribe

300 N. Washington Street, Suite 505, Alexandria, VA 22314-2544

Very interesting. I would be shocked if any physician education groups are willing to even discuss bridge programs for PAs.

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Very interesting. I would be shocked if any physician education groups are willing to even discuss bridge programs for PAs.

I'm sure for a price they might be willing. The problem is that none of the participants understand how the medical education system works. Any bridge program has to be at least 3 years long by WHO requirements and the participants would be horribly disadvantaged in the match.

This is what happens when people with a vested interest in the making money off education and not a vested interest in the profession try to develop a system. The charge was to discuss a clinical PA doctorate. The entry level degree has already been discussed and this group has no right or charge to discuss this. Same with a "PA bridge". Just a bunch of MD wannabes and academics looking for more $$$. I'm guessing that the life expectancy of this will be short in the HOD.

David Carpenter, PA-C

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I have been following this for quite some time and am not sure what to make of it. I already have a prior BS and MS in psych. I hated the profession so decided to go to nursing school with the intent always being to go the NP or PA route at some point. I am in my second year of an ADN program and have no idea what to do now with the current developments of the DNP. I had been seriously considering RN-MSN programs to get an NP but not sure these will exist anymore. I am finding more and more dnp programs requiring a BSN to apply and then an additional 3 years of full-time schooling. My first thought was "Why not just go to medical school?" No confusion or question ever about what the hell I can do, I am the boss, and will get paid a hell of a lot more money for my trouble. 4 years of schooling full-time is what I have to expect in order to become an NP now. That is at least one extra year of tuition and 1 extra year of not working full-time in order to complete the degree as quickly as possible. What about so many nurses who are doing the MS NP part-time? Can we say they will definitely not be going on to higher education? 7-8 years to complete schooling at the doctorate level? This is why med school isnt' part-time. Who would finish after already going through 4 years of nursing for a BSN. At least with an MD there is no confusion about what your scope of practice is. That's another thing. Being a master's trained NP with the DNP looming out there as the only way to become an NP now makes it appear as though these great practioners are sub-par. Also, more schooling, more cost, more loans for no more knowledge to be a practioner. This degree does not seem to be changing the sope of practice for NP's. You won't do more or know more than the master's trained NP's now in practice. This does not make us doctor's. This is not medical school. We will still be limited to what are current limits are now no more, no less. Are they going to increase the pay substantially for DNP's now since we will have the higher degree that takes more time and more money and plus we are going to be so much more educated with more clinical and class hours? Am I going to make more money to pay back the extra loans for school and living expenses for the additional 1+ years it will take to complete this degree? My guess is a big fat NO!!! So what the heck are we talking about here. Someone correct me if I am wrong please. But is this not a degree that will give no further clinical/nursing knowledge than is already present in MS programs ( if the answer is yes then holy crap have the NP's that have been practicing for decades been undertrained by missing those crucial 1+ years of education and clinical hours now being offerred by the DNP?) Is this not a degree that will afford no further privileges or enhance my scope of practice in practice or all of sudden open up all these doors that have so long been shut because the NP has been at a master's level? And again I see no plans to increase pay substantially to make up for the extra time and effort it will now take for me to perform in the EXACT SAME CAPACITY AS A MASTER"S TRAINED NP!!!! Well, if anyone was wondering you can stop now. You just lost a future NP to PA or possible MD/DO school. Good luck figuring out your profession and all the letters you consistently assign any and every little thing to your own detriment (LP/LVN/RN/RNC/CNE/CNL/CNS/NP/DNP) No wonder everyone is so confused and why no one can take nursing seriously. What a bunch of crap glad I wasted am waisting two years of time trying to be a nurse when I could have been taking prereq's for PA/MD/DO school. Thanks a lot.:angryfire

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Specializes in Family Practice.

ksc0723 - You seem a little frustrated. I've been a Family Nurse Practitioner for 16 years (MSN prepared). I've never regretted it. With your Psychology Degrees, you should become a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner. Once you are making $100,000 plus with that, you can finish your PhD in Psychology. You should be able to find the perfect job with that combination.

If not, finish your Pre-Med. Get the 30+ scores on the MCAT you will need to get into Medical School, and spend 7 years becoming a Psychiatrist or Internist or whatever type of Physician would make you happy.

And, thank you.

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ksc0723 - You seem a little frustrated. I've been a Family Nurse Practitioner for 16 years (MSN prepared). I've never regretted it. With your Psychology Degrees, you should become a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner. Once you are making $100,000 plus with that, you can finish your PhD in Psychology. You should be able to find the perfect job with that combination.

If not, finish your Pre-Med. Get the 30+ scores on the MCAT you will need to get into Medical School, and spend 7 years becoming a Psychiatrist or Internist or whatever type of Physician would make you happy.

And, thank you.

She should stay far away from NP school, I don't see the NP role ever meeting her desired intent of scope of practice. If she is frustrated now, I can see a lot more frustration with the time spent to attain the BS and than the DNP. PA or MD is the way to go in this situation. One thing that always bothers me, so many posters dont know how to spell "practitioner", not a big deal, just seems strange.

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Specializes in Family Practice.

Prairienp says: One thing that always bothers me, so many posters dont know how to spell "practitioner", not a big deal, just seems strange.

I know Prairienp. Who are these people. It's like "Seven years ago I couldn't even spell Practitioner. And now I is one."

There is no easy road. It's either 8 years to the DNP or

FOUR years pre-med plus FOUR years Medical School plus THREE years Residency.

If one could find a 4 year PA program, then go for it.

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I have been following this for quite some time and am not sure what to make of it. I already have a prior BS and MS in psych. I hated the profession so decided to go to nursing school with the intent always being to go the NP or PA route at some point. I am in my second year of an ADN program and have no idea what to do now with the current developments of the DNP. I had been seriously considering RN-MSN programs to get an NP but not sure these will exist anymore. I am finding more and more DNP programs requiring a BSN to apply and then an additional 3 years of full-time schooling. My first thought was "Why not just go to medical school?" No confusion or question ever about what the hell I can do, I am the boss, and will get paid a hell of a lot more money for my trouble. 4 years of schooling full-time is what I have to expect in order to become an NP now. That is at least one extra year of tuition and 1 extra year of not working full-time in order to complete the degree as quickly as possible. What about so many nurses who are doing the MS NP part-time? Can we say they will definitely not be going on to higher education? 7-8 years to complete schooling at the doctorate level? This is why med school isnt' part-time. Who would finish after already going through 4 years of nursing for a BSN. At least with an MD there is no confusion about what your scope of practice is. That's another thing. Being a master's trained NP with the DNP looming out there as the only way to become an NP now makes it appear as though these great practioners are sub-par. Also, more schooling, more cost, more loans for no more knowledge to be a practioner. This degree does not seem to be changing the sope of practice for NP's. You won't do more or know more than the master's trained NP's now in practice. This does not make us doctor's. This is not medical school. We will still be limited to what are current limits are now no more, no less. Are they going to increase the pay substantially for DNP's now since we will have the higher degree that takes more time and more money and plus we are going to be so much more educated with more clinical and class hours? Am I going to make more money to pay back the extra loans for school and living expenses for the additional 1+ years it will take to complete this degree? My guess is a big fat NO!!! So what the heck are we talking about here. Someone correct me if I am wrong please. But is this not a degree that will give no further clinical/nursing knowledge than is already present in MS programs ( if the answer is yes then holy crap have the NP's that have been practicing for decades been undertrained by missing those crucial 1+ years of education and clinical hours now being offerred by the DNP?) Is this not a degree that will afford no further privileges or enhance my scope of practice in practice or all of sudden open up all these doors that have so long been shut because the NP has been at a master's level? And again I see no plans to increase pay substantially to make up for the extra time and effort it will now take for me to perform in the EXACT SAME CAPACITY AS A MASTER"S TRAINED NP!!!! Well, if anyone was wondering you can stop now. You just lost a future NP to PA or possible MD/DO school. Good luck figuring out your profession and all the letters you consistently assign any and every little thing to your own detriment (LP/LVN/RN/RNC/CNE/CNL/CNS/NP/DNP) No wonder everyone is so confused and why no one can take nursing seriously. What a bunch of crap glad I wasted am waisting two years of time trying to be a nurse when I could have been taking prereq's for PA/MD/DO school. Thanks a lot.:angryfire

Yep sort of what I have said before but I don't blame each and every nurse. I do blame those ivory tower folks though :-)

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Specializes in Family Practice.

Prairienp says: One thing that always bothers me, so many posters dont know how to spell "practitioner", not a big deal, just seems strange.

I know Prairienp. It's like; "Seven years ago I couldn't even spell Practitioner. And now I is one."

There is no easy road. It's either 8 years to the DNP or

4 years pre-med plus 4 years Medical School plus 3 years Residency.

If one could find a 4 year PA program, then go for it.

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My frustration lies solely in the fact they are increasing the amount of schooling it takes to become and NP and thus increasing the money and time it will take without compensation or expanded privileges. It is very stupid and no one seems to be explaining the need for this.

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Specializes in Family Practice.

I know it is frustrating kc. I remember years of school with no compensation in sight. But this is real.

Nursing is great secret of the under class. Start as an Nurses Aid in a Nursing Home. Advance to LVN. Then RN. What other professions are so structured?

I always worked full time during my BSN. I was fortunate to get a scholarship for the MSN.

Don't worry about the DNP deal. It's not immediate now. And you can't fight City Hall, anyway.

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Specializes in icu/er ccrn.

i asked a nurse at a pals course i attended why she decided to enroll into a dnp program vs the standard msn np course. her response was she felt it would allow her to help her patients more and she always wanted to be called "dr.". now i've looked at a dnp program course portfolio, and really all i see is research this and research and stats on that. no where is their any training that would help one become a better practitioner while dealing hands on with a sick child or suturing up difficuolt lacerations in a small er. maybe i just dont know enough about the whole process, but to me i just see this dnp thing as a paper title without much merit.

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