Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

Specializes in SICU,L and D.

What does IMO stand for? One person posted that MSN NP may be paid less than the DNP. So I was wondering if the NP was already established in a career and the group hired a new NP with a DNP if they might make more to start off with than the MSN NP. Also why would a person opt for DNP if MD could be completed in almost the exact time frame? I should hope the DNP would be compensated starting out at 100k and no less. That is a lot of schooling.

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What does IMO stand for? One person posted that MSN NP may be paid less than the DNP. So I was wondering if the NP was already established in a career and the group hired a new NP with a DNP if they might make more to start off with than the MSN NP. Also why would a person opt for DNP if MD could be completed in almost the exact time frame? I should hope the DNP would be compensated starting out at 100k and no less. That is a lot of schooling.

I believe that IMO= in my opinion. Why would a person opt for a DNP if an MD could be completed in the same amount of time? There is no way an MD can be completed in the same amount of time. If I'm correct, a DNP can be completed in 2 years post-BSN or MSN and seems to be far more flexible in its curriculum (i.e. you can complete it part time and/or online).

A medical degree requires 4 years of full time schooling. After that, the degree is completely worthless unless you complete a residency, which adds a minimum of 3 years onto the 4 years of med school. A lot of people choose to go on to enter a fellowship that adds another year or a couple of years on to their training. None of this training can be done online or part-time. It's pretty inflexible and highly competitive.

As for DNP's making more money than a MSN trained NP, I don't really think they should. The courses seem to be based on business, leadership, etc. and I don't see how this is going to make a better nurse practitioner. I don't see why we should be throwing more money at an unproven product just because we changed the initials after their last name. The same thing happened with pharmacists, PT's, etc. They changed their education to a PhD level, but the product remained the same. The same thing is going to happen with NP's. No way their salary should increase.

BTW, $100,000 for the starting salary for an NP? Are you serious? Why not hire a physician?

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Specializes in ICU, Neuro, Cardiac.

The doctorate degree will not be as hard to obtain as you think. You would go straight from the BSN into the DNP and not have to obtain an MSN. Our SON have already changed the degree of the CRNAs to DNPs. If you have your MSN and then get a DNP, it is a lateral move. To get a higher degree, you would have to get your Ph.D. Of course, the curriculum will be different for the DNP but I am not sure how. I hope this helps.

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Specializes in FNP.
If I'm correct, a DNP can be completed in 2 years post-BSN or MSN

Not correct. A DNP requires 2-3 years after the Masters degree. To go directly from the Bachelor's in Nursing to the DNP is around 4 years of full-time study.

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Specializes in ICU, Neuro, Cardiac.

If this is true, then why are the BSNs coming out of the CRNA program with a DNP? Maybe it is different with each state, school system etc. Who knows, man? I don't think they have it all figured out.

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BTW, $100,000 for the starting salary for an NP? Are you serious? Why not hire a physician?

Because they don't want to work for so little.:smokin:

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Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.

I'm hoping that the DNP thing never happens which is a possibility, if it does, it should include more fundamental science courses. I'd really enjoy a science component equivalent to graduate level classes. The leadership, management, etc. seem like things that don't require anything more than a pamphlet. How are these classes relevant? I'm doing a leadership/management class now in the BSN program that I'm almost done with and honestly it's something that can take place in a weekend seminar. I think the DNP may turn people away from the nursing profession, and I've mentioned this in the past, so I'm probably repeating myself. It may turn me away as well to eather PA, DO, ND, or even PhD in something entirely different. I'll use the experience I'll gain as an RN toward any other clinical degree I obtain. But it must be relevant to clinical practice. I honestly hate hate hate extensive management, leadership, economic crapola. I'm sorry, maybe I'm wrong about these classes, but so far that's how they seem to me.

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Just to get into the discussion on doctorates, University of Tennessee at Memphis is offering a new 3 year program during which a masters and doctorate in nursing are awarded, it is clinical and can be used for teaching. In listening to the recruiter, it is certainly intense, not everyone who applies is accepted, but that's quite an accomplishment in three years. What do you think?

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I understand the importance of education as it relates to competency of practice and personal fulfillment, but how much more could someone expect to earn with a doctorate in nursing? We work in an industry that rewards a BSN with an extra dollar over an ADN, and a Masters can expect to get a dollar more that a BSN. Pocket change, it's insulting. Can our profession make a doctorate financially rewarding? I don't think so. The universities offering these programs will enrich themselves. It also means job security and possibly job creation for instructors, but how financially rewarding will it be for the degree seeker? Are you going to earn $200,000 or $300,000 as a "doctor of nursing"? Of course not. You'll have your fancy little title and degree and will be working in an industry that can't possibly provide you with the compensation that should accompany that many extra years in school. On the CBS news they had an employment story about what the in demand jobs are. The biggest group of these jobs were technical ADN type trades such as electricians, construction, and of course ADN nurses. These positions paid more than most 4 year degree "white collar" jobs. What's the point? One needs to be in demand to receive a higher level of compensation. It's not the degree, it's the public's demand, and the public's perception of the service that they are receiving, that create financial value and compensation for the practitioner of that trade or expertise. As the news story said - "for 50 years people have been told to go to college and get a 4 year degree" but now we have millions of people with 4 year degrees (they are a dime a dozen, what high school grads were 30-40 years ago) who have crummy "cubicle" jobs and mountains of student loans. I don't think that there is a financial "floor" that can support or justify a nation-wide requirement to get a doctorate to be a NP or CRNA. Snoopd.

Boy, you hit the nail on the head with this.

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BTW, $100,000 for the starting salary for an NP? Are you serious? Why not hire a physician?

100K doesn't mean what it used to. Not to mention, it puts you in a higher tax bracket to knock you back down to about 60K.

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Specializes in NICU, Pediatrics, Postpartum, M/B.

That's the same degree I'm working on @ Arizona State University. It is intense, but SO worth it! Also for the previous poster, I can understand your frustration with more management, etc. classes, but in anything you further your education in, that is going to be a factor. The Master's/DNP program does include some of those, but also, as I am going to be an advance practice nurse, I feel they are necessary! I also had looked @ PA school, but in the end, to be an NP, you can work independant of an MD, but as a PA, you cannot! That was what helped me to make my decision!

Kristen

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Specializes in NICU, Pediatrics, Postpartum, M/B.

And also, a physician serves one purpose, while an NP serves another...look into it! Doctors use the "medical" model, only focusing on the issue or system at hand, but as an NP, I will still use my "nursing" model, and treat the patient holistically! That is important to me. Also, 100,000 is not the going rate for all NP/DNPs...in my field, which I just found out 4 semesters into my program, my area "going rate" is 200,000. Just an FYI.

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