Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

markdanurse.....a DNSc IS a research doctorate and it DOES require a discertation.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

Indicators of Quality in Research-Focused

Doctoral Programs in Nursing

Position Statement: Schools of nursing must consider the indicators of quality in evaluating their ability to mount research-focused doctoral programs. High quality programs require a large number of increasingly scarce resources and a critical mass of faculty and students. The Indicators of Quality in Research-Focused Doctoral Programs in Nursing represent those indicators that should be present in a research-focused program.

There is considerable consensus within the discipline that while there are differences in the purpose and curricula of PhD and DNS programs, most programs emphasize preparation for research. Therefore, AACN recommends continuing with a single set of quality indicators for research-focused doctoral programs in nursing whether the program leads to a PhD or a DNS degree.

Research-focused doctoral programs prepare students to pursue intellectual inquiry and conduct independent research for the purpose of extending knowledge. In the academic community, the PhD, or Doctor of Philosophy degree, is the most commonly offered research-focused degree. However, some schools for a variety of reasons may award a Doctor of Nursing Science (DNS or DNSc) as the research-focused doctoral degree. Individuals educated in research-focused doctoral programs are traditionally prepared to pursue careers in research and teaching. Graduates of these programs also are prepared to pursue careers in the fields of nursing and health care administration and policy. The purposes of the research-focused doctoral degree are to prepare for a lifetime of intellectual inquiry, creative scholarship, and research; provide preparation that leads to careers in government, business, and industry as well as academia; and result in extension of knowledge (CGS, 1977).

Professional doctoral programs are relatively new in nursing. The distinguishing factor of these programs is the emphasis on research application. Graduates of the professional degree program are prepared to function in advanced practice roles, as well as administrative, executive, public policy, and teaching roles.

The Nursing Doctorate (ND) degree prepares individuals for practice and is not a research-focused degree.

More: http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Publications/positions/qualityindicators.htm

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While DNSc degrees are certainly research-focused, not all programs require a dissertation -- many offer the candidate a choice of completing a dissertation or a "research project." The degree does not require an original contribution to the body of nursing knowledge, as a PhD does.

I'm not aware of universities discouraging or preventing nursing programs from developing PhD programs (which certainly doesn't mean it doesn't happen :)), but I am aware of plenty of nursing programs that chose to offer a DNS/DNSc (or other doctorate besides the PhD) because the nursing program did not want to have to meet all the requirements that they would have to for a PhD program, the requirements every other department of the university that offers a PhD meets ... The school at which I took my MSN decided to offer a DNSc degree rather than a PhD for that very reason -- it would be too expensive and difficult to meet the standards for a PhD (that was not reported in the school's publicity about starting the new program, of course, but that's what I was told by faculty when I asked about the decision) -- much to the dismay of many of the nursing faculty.

I think that a big part of the reason nursing is not taken more seriously in academia is that too many in nursing want us to be taken seriously without having to do the "heavy lifting" all the other academic disciplines take for granted -- from offering community college degrees as the entry into practice, to having the multiplicity of doctoral degrees with lesser requirements than the rest of academia but expecting people to consider them "equal" because we call them doctorates. I'm not arguing in favor of the BSN as entry to practice or eliminating the other doctorates. And I'm not sure we need to be taken seriously as a profession or an academic discipline (apart from the egos & self esteem of some of us! :)) Maybe it's just fine for us to follow our own path that makes sense for nursing. I'm just saying that it's kinda goofy to expect to be taken seriously when we just plain don't meet the requirements of the other, established professions and academic discplines.

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while dnsc degrees are certainly research-focused, not all programs require a dissertation -- many offer the candidate a choice of completing a dissertation or a "research project." the degree does not require an original contribution to the body of nursing knowledge, as a phd does.

i'm not aware of universities discouraging or preventing nursing programs from developing phd programs (which certainly doesn't mean it doesn't happen :)), but i am aware of plenty of nursing programs that chose to offer a dns/dnsc (or other doctorate besides the phd) because the nursing program did not want to have to meet all the requirements that they would have to for a phd program, the requirements every other department of the university that offers a phd meets ... the school at which i took my msn decided to offer a dnsc degree rather than a phd for that very reason -- it would be too expensive and difficult to meet the standards for a phd (that was not reported in the school's publicity about starting the new program, of course, but that's what i was told by faculty when i asked about the decision) -- much to the dismay of many of the nursing faculty.

i think that a big part of the reason nursing is not taken more seriously in academia is that too many in nursing want us to be taken seriously without having to do the "heavy lifting" all the other academic disciplines take for granted -- from offering community college degrees as the entry into practice, to having the multiplicity of doctoral degrees with lesser requirements than the rest of academia but expecting people to consider them "equal" because we call them doctorates. i'm not arguing in favor of the bsn as entry to practice or eliminating the other doctorates. and i'm not sure we need to be taken seriously as a profession or an academic discipline (apart from the egos & self esteem of some of us! :)) maybe it's just fine for us to follow our own path that makes sense for nursing. i'm just saying that it's kinda goofy to expect to be taken seriously when we just plain don't meet the requirements of the other, established professions and academic discplines.

i believe you would find a variety of insights as to the rigor of different phds. in graduate school we often discussed the ease of the phd in education or sociology or other discipline we thought was "easier" as compared to nursing. in reality the rigor associated with the doctorate will differ from university to university and from department to department and finally yet importantly from chair to chair of the student's disquisition. we will also find over the next few years dnp "projects" that were more rigorous than some phd disquisitions.

what i have found, nursing projects, theses, or dissertations are generally above average in rigor, not the hardest , clearly not the easiest. for a discipline that is so varied in preparation and in scope of practice i think the rigor is quite good overall. is there room for improvement, absolutely.

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I am a BSN student ( with two masters under my belt in other fields) and am looking at my options. The DNP, a four year degreem doesn't sound bad, but some of the posts here sound like that is 4 yours after the BSN. Not true. At Texas Tech it states that the DNP is for MASTER prepared students! So actually, you get our masters in about 2 years and then your DNP in an additonal 4. Thats 6 years of post BSN training. That is compared with a 4 year MD degree + 3 year residency. For twice income, and about the same tution and approx. the same prep time, if I wasn't already middle aged, I'd drop now and just go the med.school.!!!

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Excuse me. But coming from an education background, and ABD myself, there is nothing easy about dissertations or doctorial stuff. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't be where you are today if folks hadn't researched learning theories and methods and stuff. Hopefully what goes on in a classroom is just as evidenced based as what goes on in a hospital. Our degrees often take longer and require more field work and more cooperation between shareholders.

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I am a BSN student ( with two masters under my belt in other fields) and am looking at my options. The DNP, a four year degreem doesn't sound bad, but some of the posts here sound like that is 4 yours after the BSN. Not true. At Texas Tech it states that the DNP is for MASTER prepared students! So actually, you get our masters in about 2 years and then your DNP in an additonal 4. Thats 6 years of post BSN training. That is compared with a 4 year MD degree + 3 year residency. For twice income, and about the same tution and approx. the same prep time, if I wasn't already middle aged, I'd drop now and just go the med.school.!!!

Holiday, there are DNP completion programs for master's prepared NPs that require less than two years. Look at the University of Colorado or Minnesota State Univeristy Mankato. The salary issue, that is a problem.

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ANd actully I Think its amazing that a BSN graduate like me can go straight in the DNP program for 3 years.... I mean you might as well by the year of 2012.... all Np will be forced to get their DNP....

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Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency, Education, Informatics.
ANd actully I Think its amazing that a BSN graduate like me can go straight in the DNP program for 3 years.... I mean you might as well by the year of 2012.... all Np will be forced to get their DNP....

All NP won't be forced to get a DNP. Anyone who got in now will retire before that happens. There are still some non degree CRNA's out htere working and I'm pretty sure some of hte non degree NPs are. Now there might be some practice restrictions.

I changed how i'm looking at it, and not focusing on the terminal degree. Just looking at is as another year in school. And since I"ve been complaining about the nursing education model for so long, I guess I have to be carefull about what I'm saying. It's not worth fighting about. Things will even out here in a bit with what the program are. Right now it's still up in the air because different schools are implimenting things differently.

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Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.

I spoke to someone informally about the DNP at UCSF and they said that they don't know what will happen in the future and that the market will decide the necessity of the DNP. Meanwhile they will revise their masters programs to continue to turn out some of the best trained clinicians in the country.

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Specializes in critical care.

I also posted this on the graduate student nursing forum.

Is anyone re-considering their NP/MSN plans due to the development of the DNP?

I plan on starting a FNP program this summer. The more I read about the DNP the more I am unsure of my decision. Although MSN-NPs will be grandfathered in I have heard that reimbursement may become limited for the MSN-NP therefore essentially requiring NPs to obtain the DNP. Has anyone else heard this?

My employer offers an on-site, completely paid for MSN in education or administration and that is looking better all the time.

D

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As A practicing MSN/NP who will be going back to school for the DNP in the fall, I say get the DNP and be done with it. I love my job and yes I did Admin/ MSN and went back for the NP... ( I missed Patients) ... But- there are so many differnet perspecticves.. Look at the whole picture. What's good for YOU? If you have a number of years left in your career.. think of it as an investment.. I have around 25 yrs left and I can't see myself going back towards the end of my career.. or no would I reccommned it to someone with only 10 or so yrs left.... I don't need the DNP - but my employer has told me if I do get it I will be utilized in nationwide stuff... S0 - again ask yourself.. where are youin your life plan?

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