Doc beings medical student without permission

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I have to ask you guys a question. Maybe this is more appropriate for another forum and if so, please point me in the correct direction.

We have a fairly new male OB who has been in academia for years at another facility; therefor he is very used to teaching. His teaching is not the problem.

Recently, he has been bringing medical students (male and female) around on the unit when he is visiting his patients (who may be in labor). What is bothering me is that he will walk right in to the laboring woman's room with his student in tow and even examine a patient (lady partslly) WITHOUT asking her permission in advance. This is really beginning to bother me.

I know that he also does this in his on-site office because I have had this same discussion with one of his office staff.

I feel that his patient's rights are being violated when he does this. He has no business bringing anyone in with him, unless he asks their permission beforehand.

I intend to speak with him about this because as a patient advocate, I firmly believe that he is violating patient confidentiality, not to mention their right to privacy. But before I do this, I want to have my ducks in a row, so to speak so that I go up the chain of command properly.

Can anyone give me any citations or anything I can use as ammunition if I need it? I can go to our risk manager as well. I jsut want to do this right. I do not want to be confrontational but I want to protect his patients.

Thanks, in advance.

most admission paperwork, consents, and so forth state that the physicain or "other hospital staff".........So that would include students.........

We brought this up in another post about procedures being done by students when the patient thought it was the physician performing the procedure...Example....The patient thinks the physician is performing a lumbar puncture, when its really a student...without the patients knowledge....

So although it seems like its a violation of their privacy, they have actually signed away their rights.....Although it would still be proper to ask permission. Whats funny is if its Med students they barge in........Nursing students will never act in that way and always ask permission.....

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Eeewwww! How awful! Were you covered up when the student walked in, or was it already too late when you realized you knew him?

Covered thank goodnessssssssss!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Always ask..geez..I can remember being 'in the stirrups' and my doc walks in with a med student..I live in a small town..the student was a guy I was in high school with...I was like ummmmm I DON'T THINK SO!!! could just see myself in a social setting with this student...ummm NO....lmao;)

Thats funny, when i was in my OB rotation, i walked in and looked at the patient and we both said "i know you" She was a girl i went to high school with, and a girl everyone had a crush on...........It felt akward, but at that point she didnt care anymore......

I would ask i it were you, but her name wasnt mandy..........

Up Vote Up Vote ×

The patient should be respected as a person. I am male and I ask if I am to be in a room with a patient. In twenty years I have only had one person refuse. I would not want to have anyone in the room when I get an exam if I did not know who they were. I have had med students and nursing students care for me . I would have been angry if I had not been asked.

When I was a student nurse the women I cared for in my OB/GYN rotation were pleased to see a male interested in caring for them as a nurse. The first woman I cared for was someone I had known socialy (small town) and she was ok with me.

I imagine if I had walked in and started to care for her without asking she would have been very uncomfortable.

I will remind my patients that they have the right to know who is caring for them and why. They have the right to say no and it should be honored.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care, ER.
Has it occured to you that every patient has the right to say "No" 100% of the time? Your desire for education and training does not obligate ANY patient to tolerate your presence, especially without his/her express consent.

As a woman who has delivered 2 babies, I personally didn't care who was present, as long as I was asked first. Had someone appeared without explanation or permission, my hubby would have tossed his/her sorry butt out the door on my behalf.

As a woman who has delivered one high risk, complicated baby, I agree with Jolie 100%. If you *ask* me first, I really have no problem with allowing you to view or touch my privates. If you just waltz in an treat me like a learning tool, I'm getting PISSY. The truth, y'all.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

For real bluesky. I don't think ANYONE wants their privates on display(well most don't..lol)..and how long does it take to ask..3 seconds?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Operating Room.

Both of my girls were born in a teaching hospital. Everyone and their brothers saw me..lol

At the point of being in labor.....WHO CARES!!!!?????!!!!

I would think that this isn't a big deal to the pts. They are dr's, or at least will be. It's probably bothering you more than the patient. Obviously those Docs (male and female) have seen the female anatomy before, whether it be live, cadaver, or pictures.

They need to learn the same as you did when in nursing school....hands on training, and visuals of the real things that go on in the medical field.

I would hate some nurse to tell me I couldn't watch & learn something because "I'm a student".

Also, that Dr. may tell his patients that he occasionally brings students in.

.....just my :twocents:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Oncology RN.
Have you ever wondered how they get all that footage for such series as "Trauma: Life in the ER"? Talk about privacy issues!!!

The Discovery Channel has everyone sign wavers to be featured on the show. If they refuse to sign it, then you see the faces blurred...if it is an interesting case and they want to show it. I only know this because I was a patient featured on the show after a car accident...and I did sign the waver.

Our hospital consent for treatment forms state that as a teaching hospital, patients should expect to have students (nursing or medical) care for them at some point or another. They can always decline at the bedside, but at least they are informed when they come in.

I've had patients who didn't want students, and that was totally fine with everyone. However, when you work at a large university hospital, at least if you are a patient at one...you can be guaranteed you will have a student.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in OB.

I have a simple way of handling this. When the doc walks in with the student, I say to the patient - this is "so and so", Dr's medical student. Are you comfortable with him being here for your exam?" Most times the patient is agreeable, and after I've done this a couple of times, the doc learns that it's better for him to ask first.

Doesn't win me any popularity contests with the docs, but that's not my concern, pt. advocacy is!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Cath Lab, OR, CPHN/SN, ER.

When I did my OB rotation, the nurse went in and asked if it was OK for a student nurse to be in there with the patient, and all of the patients were ok with it, but I was not the one asking. Maybe in his case the nurse asked beforehand. Also, we're a teaching hospital. It was my understanding that the patient knows they may have students of some sort (nursing, residents, radiology...)...shouldn't it be listed in their admission paperwork? Of course, the patient always has the right to REFUSE care from that person though. I've never had a patient refuse, they usually prefer it...they get their own personal nurse for the day!

-Andrea

(I also introduced myself as Andrea, senior nursing student from ... after the nurse had asked.)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in LDRP.

I guess I'll be on the other side of this in about 9 weeks when my baby is due. I am a 4th semester ADN student, and I'll be delivering at a teaching hospital, where my school does it's OB rotation-I could have a 1st year nursing student in there with me that I actually know, since I know many of them. I've decided I dont mind if one is present, but will have to remind them of HIPPA and not to discuss that I was the one they observed. during post clinical conference, the students always discuss what htey have seen, and I don't want them to be like "oh i saw that second year student have her baby, etc" b/c i do have to go back to school and see these folks, often! I'd rather too many of them not have seen me naked, or heard about it :)

Up Vote Up Vote ×

When I had my hysterectomy I had a Stanford MSIV (fourth year med student) involved with my case. I think he asked--but I did meet him in pre-op--and I think I may have had something for anxiety by that time!!! He was tall, cute and, I guess I'd say "understated" (retiring?). I enjoyed talking with him. Come to think of it, the surgeons on the case were my GYN and a 3rd yr resident GYN. I'm not sure who was the primary surgeon and who was assisting, come to think of it. But I sure liked having lots of docs to talk to!!! It gets boring in the hospital :) :) :) Especially the med student; he was the last to see me at night and the first to see me in the am. I told him at night to get some sleep, and asked him in the am if he got any sleep the night before (he came in at 6 or so)--he said he got about 2 hours. So much fun being maternal!!! :)

NurseFirst

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment