Earlier today there was a thread regarding Dr. Kevorkian's release from prison. Just as I was adding my thoughts, it got moved to the Current Events restricted area.
At that time, it seemed like there was 100% support for him. Honestly, I was surprised, especially since not everyone he killed was terminally ill. (I'm from Michigan, though, so maybe I know more about his history).
So I'm wondering, do nurses generally support the theory of physician assisted suicide?
If you've seen half the pts. I have in long term end of life care, even if it was just my gero rotation, you'd also support PAS. I can't tell you how many pts. ive cared for who were unable to communicate, ambulate, do any sort of ADLs, or anything. The families of the pts. wanted to keep them alive for their own selfish reasons.
The one pt. that stands out in my mind, was one I had been caring for for a couple of weeks. She had a cardiac arrest and was down for too long when the paramedics brought her back... she was a vegetable. One day I went in to change her sheets, and there were tears running down her cheeks. Say what you will, but I was and still am CONVINCED that she was fully aware of what was going on, but was trapped inside her own mind. Can you even begin to imagine what that must be like? I was raised, as a male, to never, ever cry... but let me tell you I sat in my car after for a good half hour crying my heart out
If you've seen half the pts. I have in long term end of life care, even if it was just my gero rotation, you'd also support PAS. I can't tell you how many pts. ive cared for who were unable to communicate, ambulate, do any sort of ADLs, or anything. The families of the pts. wanted to keep them alive for their own selfish reasons.
The one pt. that stands out in my mind, was one I had been caring for for a couple of weeks. She had a cardiac arrest and was down for too long when the paramedics brought her back... she was a vegetable. One day I went in to change her sheets, and there were tears running down her cheeks. Say what you will, but I was and still am CONVINCED that she was fully aware of what was going on, but was trapped inside her own mind. Can you even begin to imagine what that must be like? I was raised, as a male, to never, ever cry... but let me tell you I sat in my car after for a good half hour crying my heart out
These type of pt's wouldn't be eligible for PAS b/c, as I understand it, PAS is not administered by a health care provider. The agent that brings about death is provided to the pt who must then make the decision and administer it to themselves. What you are talking about is cessation of care, withdrawing vents, tube feedings, etc. which keep people alive beyond a point where their body is self-sustaining. PAS is providing a pt who is otherwise going to go on living (at least for a while) with a life ending substance.
If you've seen half the pts. I have in long term end of life care, even if it was just my gero rotation, you'd also support PAS. I can't tell you how many pts. ive cared for who were unable to communicate, ambulate, do any sort of ADLs, or anything. The families of the pts. wanted to keep them alive for their own selfish reasons.
The one pt. that stands out in my mind, was one I had been caring for for a couple of weeks. She had a cardiac arrest and was down for too long when the paramedics brought her back... she was a vegetable. One day I went in to change her sheets, and there were tears running down her cheeks. Say what you will, but I was and still am CONVINCED that she was fully aware of what was going on, but was trapped inside her own mind. Can you even begin to imagine what that must be like? I was raised, as a male, to never, ever cry... but let me tell you I sat in my car after for a good half hour crying my heart out
I do understand your beliefs on the matter. but maybe things are different here with us. This is preserving life that we are concern of ."Assisting suicide" on our own hand is what I viewed as unimaginable. We always encounter patients with many complications, unbearable pain, but this the reason that nurses has to render their full support and therefore to manage the patients. Let us just say, let the process of the disease take it naturally. All we can do is to alleviate the pain in a nice way. "Assisting suicide" may compromise the well being of some other people. But on the other hand, we have different views about life and death. Nurses are always confronted problems with regards to legal and ethical issues and how we manage these things. And at the end, I will continue to serve the patient until they leave us.
As a Christian nurse, I've watched my Grandma and my Mother die peacefully at home under the service of hospice care. Back then, I was also a hospice RN. There was a time when my mother asked me to end the pain. I cried with her and I helped her just by being there for her. She said she wasn't ready to die. What could I say? I just let her fall asleep on my lap while the medication worked itself where it hurt her the most. My family endured the struggle both times. It separated us emotionally after she died. I still believe that PAS is the NOT the solution to a terminal disease. I wouldn't choose it for myself because God is the Ruler of my life. He gave life to me and He has all power to take it when He chooses. The mystery of prolonging death has no logical explanation. Only God has an answer to this difficult lesson. Like many American families, we experienced the moment being at Mom's side when she took her last breath. We were all there with her. She died gracefully, leaving us behind wondering, why her? Only God has His reasons.
My thoughts are, Oregonians have influenced a lot of nurses. It's a shame that man can think that they have the ultimate say so about ending one's life. Nurses are known to provide comfort and dignity by making the best out of the remaining days of life. We should think that even at the end, there are still lessons to be learned.
i work in ltc, i see so many 90 to 100 year olds whose families insist on feeding tubes to keep grandma & great grandpa alive, all the people they know are gone. the quality of life for these pt's is basically nil, they can't speak, don't recognise any one, can do nothing for themselves. they are in bed 21 out of 24 hours, i will do everything in my power to care for them, however, i feel sorry that the people making decisions for them aren't considering whats best for the pt. it seems the reason for applying gt etc, is based on grand kids & great grandkids not wanting to let go. while i understand that standing by and letting a loved one pass is very difficult, i have to question what the pt would want if they had a say. sometimes medical care prolongs the life but at the cost of living.
as for pas, i agree that with strict guidlines it can be a good thing.
jesus prayed: thy will be done...(matthew 6: 10). it shouldn't be yours! god has his own purpose why people exist longer than 90 years. man can never fathom what god has in mind. never ever!
I had to watch a pt starve herself to death for a month. She wasn't terminal she just didn't have the desire or will to live anymore. I wished I could have helped her along instead of watching her waste away before my eyes. She begged me to kill her at one point and all I could do was tell her I loved her and that I was here for her.
I may not know what God's plans are but I know he is a loving and merciful God. I try my best to live by that example. To be a loving and merciful person, and sometimes letting someone go is the greatest act of love and mercy one person can do for another.
Far better to make judicious use of life-sustaining technology in the first place, (ie not inserting feeding tubes in patients with degenerative conditions, not placing dying elderly patients on ventilators and forcing them to end their lives in ICU, not intubating 22 week preemies, etc.)
And allow them to die?
Yes, I support PAS. We safeguard our patients' right to self-determination in every other aspect of care, why not this?
Specializes in acute rehab, psych, home health, agencey.
IN our field, is there really any difference between a patient who receives a"hospice" death or a doctor who tells the family there is no hope an they should pull the plug or the md who orders a lethal prescription. The decesion is not the nurses but the patient,doctor,family or hcpoa. As nurses,wherever we work our job is to advocate for our patient and to provide the skilled and compasssionate care irregardless of our personal feelings.
IN our field, is there really any difference between a patient who receives a"hospice" death or a doctor who tells the family there is no hope an they should pull the plug or the md who orders a lethal prescription.
hell yes, there's a difference.
hospice does not write lethal prescriptions.
we do not assist in intentionally ending one's life.
we medicate to relieve suffering.
and we will medicate until the suffering has ceased.
yes, when the suicide is for medical reasons, rather than psychological reasons.
[color=#483d8b]i do realize that there is a fine line at times, and i don't want to be the one to draw up the guidelines.
[color=#483d8b]i just don't understand why someone can make all the decisions there are in life, except for how/when to die.
[color=#483d8b]i think that if more terminally ill people knew that this was an option at the very end, they might be able to spend their final days living rather than agonizing about how they might die. even if they didn't end up chosing physician-assisted suicide, i think knowing they had the option would be comforting to many.
[color=#483d8b]but, that might just be me.
hey critterlover--
you hit the nail on the head!!!! i agree that i would not want to be the one to draw up the guidelines, either. but under the right circumstances, i would much rather see a dignified death for some of the patients that i take care of than the way that they (sometimes) have to live--because the family just "can't let grampa go!@ i'll miss him so much!" now, grampa is 99 years old, senile, trached and on a terminal vent, mind you. i work in icu/ccu, and some of the residents convince the family that "they can fix grampa!!" that burns me up!!!!!!:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire
I have not read all of the posts, but personally I hope that I do not end my life like those who visit my ER daily. What are we keeping alive? I don't understand families who code, code, code, vent, vent, vent, add feed tubes, and lines, and will not let go!!! Our bodies have an expiration date, people have to accept that. Just because we can keep someone alive, doesn't mean it's ethically the right thing to do.
Truthfully, I wish people's wishes were kept. If someone feels they cannot live any longer in pain (whatever form that takes), I cannot judge them. Nor should anyone else. If someone can help them, more power to them!
I kid around saying that if I knew I had a terminal illness, I'd live well until I felt like I was getting sick...go to Las vegas, then sit on a mesa or mountain until I died. That's my feeling now. Told my kids and their response was "Mom, you must be depressed from your job" How scary that my college aged kids are already dismissing my wishes?
Any adult without a living will is nuts! Make sure you have what you want done written down! Don't count on anyone else! Just MHO.
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ramonmalino
59 Posts
If you've seen half the pts. I have in long term end of life care, even if it was just my gero rotation, you'd also support PAS. I can't tell you how many pts. ive cared for who were unable to communicate, ambulate, do any sort of ADLs, or anything. The families of the pts. wanted to keep them alive for their own selfish reasons.
The one pt. that stands out in my mind, was one I had been caring for for a couple of weeks. She had a cardiac arrest and was down for too long when the paramedics brought her back... she was a vegetable. One day I went in to change her sheets, and there were tears running down her cheeks. Say what you will, but I was and still am CONVINCED that she was fully aware of what was going on, but was trapped inside her own mind. Can you even begin to imagine what that must be like? I was raised, as a male, to never, ever cry... but let me tell you I sat in my car after for a good half hour crying my heart out