Earlier today there was a thread regarding Dr. Kevorkian's release from prison. Just as I was adding my thoughts, it got moved to the Current Events restricted area.
At that time, it seemed like there was 100% support for him. Honestly, I was surprised, especially since not everyone he killed was terminally ill. (I'm from Michigan, though, so maybe I know more about his history).
So I'm wondering, do nurses generally support the theory of physician assisted suicide?
What I support is allowing someone to choose not to be kept alive by artificial means. Relief from pain and anxiety is a must! Im a believer in Hospice. If someone was alert and oriented pain is controlled, anxiety relieved would they still want to end their life ?
For the most part, I would hope not. I'm a firm believer in everything you say. But if they were incapacitated, incontinent of bowel/bladder, unable to care for themselves, a hardship on their family, or no family and lonely in a nursing home, etc. etc. they still may choose that option.
huh? Oh my! I dont even know you. Please don't take my thoughts personnally. I was only addressing your reply issue re: wishing there were more pain medications for pain control. NOT because your a CHRISTIAN!! What's up with that?? :thankya:
As a Christian, I would not be uncomfortable with someone of a different belief system quoting from whatever they believed in (Moslem, Wiccan, etc.). It would be the same as someone quoting a theoretical nursing model that I didn't believe in.
I think that Deb has been very even-handed in explaining how her Christian beliefs have helped form her opinions on PAS and other ethical topics.
I think you are right jojotoo. I don't ask anyone else to leave their world view out of a conversation and don't want to leave mine. I am a Christian who feels a little differently than Deb ( I don't think it violates any Christian priciple to remove life sustaining tx though I agree w/ her that it does violate Christian principles to hand someone the means to kill themselves) but I respect her views. I would also respect the views of anyone else, I might not agree but I am able to respectfully listen to a differant viewpoint. (I'm not Bill O'Rielly after all:roll )
Hey,,, Dschueler.... what about the use of marijuana for pain control? I happened to be a car dealership waiting on an oil change and on the Television was the Mike and Juliet show... with a discussion on marijuana and it's medicinal uses... Hey if Im ever so bad... I'll smoke it !!! People who have aids and cancer swear by it. University of Mississippi supplies it. Montel Williams uses it for his MS. Something else to think about
God gave man dominion over all things on the planet to use WISELY (emphasis mine). I think that means He would not be against the use of it to relieve pain ( a "good" thing). I think the problem comes in when it is used to waste the precious life and potential that God gave to each of us. I think if I was in pain that was intractable to more traditional tx I'd look for some myself. I don't know if it would be MY first choice but don't necessarily think it shouldn't be someone else's.
For those of you who do not approve of PAS..it would appear that your response is driven, perhaps, by your religious beliefs. Or perhaps you have not been in nursing long enough to see the terrible carnage and suffering that humans can be subject to. Maybe you have never been in intractable pain, or been given a grim prognosis for your future or that of your family member. Let me tell you, chronic pain, or that of radiation and chemo will MAKE YOU CRAZY!!! Then the so-called experts will say you are not in your right mind, for considering offing yourself...at least with PAS there is a merciful, clean and peaceful way out..with dignity, because you are calling it. For those of you who believe such "suicide" is morally wrong, or that you'll go to hell...remember the good book says "God's ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than ours" In essence, we cannot even begin to pretend to be God, nor can any pastor or priest, or put our moral judgement on it. Ladies and Gentlemen , my fellow nurses, re-read the ANA Code of Ethics for Nurses with Interpretive Statements. Yes, we all have our opinion, but PLEASE look at the other side of the coin, and perhaps spend some time visiting and ICU or hospice!
For those of you who do not approve of PAS..it would appear that your response is driven, perhaps, by your religious beliefs. Or perhaps you have not been in nursing long enough to see the terrible carnage and suffering that humans can be subject to. Maybe you have never been in intractable pain, or been given a grim prognosis for your future or that of your family member. Let me tell you, chronic pain, or that of radiation and chemo will MAKE YOU CRAZY!!! Then the so-called experts will say you are not in your right mind, for considering offing yourself...at least with PAS there is a merciful, clean and peaceful way out..with dignity, because you are calling it. For those of you who believe such "suicide" is morally wrong, or that you'll go to hell...remember the good book says "God's ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than ours" In essence, we cannot even begin to pretend to be God, nor can any pastor or priest, or put our moral judgement on it. Ladies and Gentlemen , my fellow nurses, re-read the ANA Code of Ethics for Nurses with Interpretive Statements. Yes, we all have our opinion, but PLEASE look at the other side of the coin, and perhaps spend some time visiting and ICU or hospice!
I have been in and around the nursing field for over 35 years both my mom and grandmother was a nurse---I have had cancer twice and lost love ones to Ca so Have I experienced most of what you said ,YESSSSS I have but I still don't believe in PAS and I don't think that will ever change either!!!!!!
As competent adults, we are supposedly allowed to self determine our own fates and end of life. So this should not really be an issue in practice, but for some reason people are afraid to let this behavior become a social norm. People need to be educated more about what life support really means and if they are told they have a chronic, or terminal illness by any standard let them choose the outcome. Someone said that this might allow them to really "live" during their final days. Isn't that what we all want? I see way too much being done that could be considered cruel when the ultimate outcome has been decided.
Absolutely--after 35 years in nursing, 15 in trauma critical care, I hope this will be possible should the time come that I am either so ill or in so much pain that death would be a blessing.
PAS is more than "doing drugs". However, there are some cancers, and other illnesses that in the end stage are tremendously painful, not to mention burdensome on the family/friends left behind. When I lived in California over a decade ago, there was public outcry and petitions circulated at shopping malls way back then to pass euthanasia laws, and I DO think that eventually, this trend will be seen.
For those of you who do not approve of PAS..it would appear that your response is driven, perhaps, by your religious beliefs. Or perhaps you have not been in nursing long enough to see the terrible carnage and suffering that humans can be subject to. Maybe you have never been in intractable pain, or been given a grim prognosis for your future or that of your family member. Let me tell you, chronic pain, or that of radiation and chemo will MAKE YOU CRAZY!!! Then the so-called experts will say you are not in your right mind, for considering offing yourself...at least with PAS there is a merciful, clean and peaceful way out..with dignity, because you are calling it. For those of you who believe such "suicide" is morally wrong, or that you'll go to hell...remember the good book says "God's ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than ours" In essence, we cannot even begin to pretend to be God, nor can any pastor or priest, or put our moral judgement on it. Ladies and Gentlemen , my fellow nurses, re-read the ANA Code of Ethics for Nurses with Interpretive Statements. Yes, we all have our opinion, but PLEASE look at the other side of the coin, and perhaps spend some time visiting and ICU or hospice!
I am a cancer survivor and was treated well before zofran or 5HT drugs were available.
I have worked in Oncology/BMT, HIV or Hospice in nursing for the past 15 years. I worked with HIV patients, prior to nursing - the first IVs that I started were on friends dying of HIV - they often could not get HHC nurses to come at night to restart IVs, so the MDs taught caring laypersons to start them.
I have watched people die of GVHD, so bad that their intestines were shedding, skin was peeling off, and so swollen with edema, that their testicles and member were splitting open. I have had patients where tumors ate through major blood vessels (carotid or femoral) and been there as they bled out to death. I have dressed wounds from necrosing tumors that ate through the patient's nose and ate an hole into the brain. I have dressed a necrosing cancer wound (further damaged by radiation and then debrided) that ate through the patient's ribs - there was shards of bone sticking out into the wound and you could see pulsing from blood vessels.
I would say that I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT AND I STILL BELIEVE THAT PAS ARE WRONG!!!!!
Please don't assume that everyone that doesn't share your opinion, just doesn't have enough experience or is just "religious" - many of us do have the experience and no, religion does not form the basis of our beliefs.
Also, don't believe that we will deprive people of pain med. I have given quite a few "final" doses of morphine, even with low resps because the patient was in pain. I defend the right of people to be DNRs and have watched them be terminally weaned from the vent.
If the patient themselves takes an overdose of meds, that is their right. I am saddened by it but it is their option.
But I do not support Euthanasia and I do not support physician assisted suicide
Tweety, BSN, RN
36,271 Posts
For the most part, I would hope not. I'm a firm believer in everything you say. But if they were incapacitated, incontinent of bowel/bladder, unable to care for themselves, a hardship on their family, or no family and lonely in a nursing home, etc. etc. they still may choose that option.