This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
Specializes in med surg, geriatric, clinical, pool.
i cannot help but wonder if we know the whole story here. perhaps the colleague who was having a "bad day" has a "bad day" every time she works and hasn't yet learned the time management skills she needs to cope with her work load. in this case, having a newbie jump in and help her out not only detracts from the time the newbie could be spending organizing her own time, looking up meds, reading over procedures, etc. but enables the colleague to continue to go without learning independence or time management skills.
on the other hand, i work with a lot of folks who spend their whole day socializing, then scramble to get all their work done in the last hour before the end of the shift. i'm disinclined to help them out during that last hour . . . especially if i've been busting my butt all day long to keep my own head above water.
in the interest of supporting our colleagues, i propose we assume the best of everyone, including that preceptor.
i don't know you and you don't know the situation as mentioned above your remark. i was a "newbie" at the age of 38 yrs. old. i heard all kinds of remarks about me even the one "this is just mad money for you". who was she kidding? if i wanted mad money i certainly would not have chosen nursing to get it!
i needed help lots of times including the first time i strained my back because i was not allowed help. how dumb is that? the first thing we learned in nursing was that it's "a team effort". or so i thought.
my first job sucked in almost every way the crap i had to endure from the older nurses was absolutely uncalled for. another remark, "what's taking you so long to get vitals, are you down there fluffing their pillows?" this was a post op floor and almost everyone had a iv. i was busy walking with them to the br because the nurse from the prior shift never came back like she said she would!
come on, this is exactly why i quit nursing and i was a darn good one and i loved it, but i just couldn't take the "wars" everyday someone had something "smart" to say. that is not nursing and high school crap. even though i don't nurse and haven't in 10 yrs it still makes me mad because these no good nurses are still there, i guess they know how to hang with the possy.
oh and by the way, my last job i was a charge nurse as an lpn, i was told by my supervisor, i did a better job than most of his rns. i didn't like it because i felt used because those rns were making the big bucks not me.
oh and the rns that took care of my mother-in-law did nothing for her except hang her abts. she was dying, i called the code. i told one rn to take her food away because she would asperate and she did. and yes she finally did die.
please watch what you say because remarks like this just get me all fired up. those nurses on my first job were wrong, they just sat there all night and ate.
Thats a good theory, Tweety... regarding the teaching of independence as an explanation for the lack of social support for new nurses. I pondered that too, however, I cant help but think that most new grads would still become independent in the same amount of time with some positive reinforcement and an upbeat tone. Trial by fire works but has a domino effect on quality of life, both in and out of the hospital. We teach new grads in most all other career fields with patience and compassion regarding the steep learning curves and the only distinction regarding nursing is the cattyness conveyed by the teachers of new grads. And in the one career field that is the epitomy of benevolence, most nurses tend to stifle the innate kind posture of new grads. I truly think that a kind tone and faith in a new grad requires no more effort, and makes for a longterm happy employee who will do the same for a future new grad. I also realized this is probalby why nurses move around so much, and explains some of the appeal of traveling nursing.
One day we'll look back and say "gone are those Nurse Rachet days"...
Excellent post and points well taken. I still don't think it's "most nurses" stifling the new grads. I think most nurses are busy doing their own thing, and if a new grad is too fearful or prideful (like I was) to ask for help, then they don't help them because they have their own stuff. Sometimes these nurses get a bum rap by the sensitive ones. I also think the ones who do stifle and eat their young do so in a manner that hurts so much it ruins the reputation of the rest of us.
I don't know what the answer is because after 12 weeks or orientation there are expectations to be me met and sometimes a little tough love is in order. But I do agree that it must be done with benovelence.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
yes, tough love may be required for your children at times, but not for your professionsal counterparts who are seeking your guidance !!!
unfortunately, our professional counterparts sometimes do need tough love. especially the ones who value socialization above time management. if we always drop what we're doing to help out the newbie who has spent the whole day texting, on facebook or gossiping with her/his friends at work and now needs lots of help to finish on time, we've taught them that they don't have to pull their own weight. without sufficient motive to learn to pull their own weight -- for example staying late over and over to finish, poor evaluations and lack of help from others who know the newbie won't be reciprocating any time soon -- they won't learn.
or do you think that the experienced nurse who has already learned time management needs to practice it at the expense of her own charting time to help out someone who won't help her out when she needs it? while you're right that the patient should never suffer, some nurses just aren't going to learn unless they suffer a little.
while tough love would never be my first choice for teaching, sometimes it's required as a last chance.
Specializes in telemetry, med-surg, home health, psych.
unfortunately, our professional counterparts sometimes do need tough love. especially the ones who value socialization above time management. if we always drop what we're doing to help out the newbie who has spent the whole day texting, on facebook or gossiping with her/his friends at work and now needs lots of help to finish on time, we've taught them that they don't have to pull their own weight. without sufficient motive to learn to pull their own weight -- for example staying late over and over to finish, poor evaluations and lack of help from others who know the newbie won't be reciprocating any time soon -- they won't learn.
or do you think that the experienced nurse who has already learned time management needs to practice it at the expense of her own charting time to help out someone who won't help her out when she needs it? while you're right that the patient should never suffer, some nurses just aren't going to learn unless they suffer a little.
while tough love would never be my first choice for teaching, sometimes it's required as a last chance.
i am sorry, but i must disagree....i have handled new grads without intimidation, rudeness, etc.....etc.....maybe i have just not encountered the type that others have posted about, but on the whole, the only thing i have seen lacking in new grads is experience.....time management comes later, they are not able to learn time management in clinicals...this comes with working the floor and finding your own ways to manage your work...
i don't thing making a new nurse "suffer" is going to be of any benefit to them.......
I am sorry, but I must disagree....I have handled new grads without intimidation, rudeness, etc.....etc.....maybe I have just not encountered the type that others have posted about, but on the whole, the only thing I have seen lacking in new grads is experience.....time management comes later, they are not able to learn time management in clinicals...this comes with working the floor and finding your own ways to manage your work...
I don't thing making a new nurse "suffer" is going to be of ANY benefit to them.......
Agreed. Maybe "suffer" is a strong word. You're point that time management is learned by them on the floor and not clinicals can also be expanded to their preceptorship as a new grad. During the preceptorship after graduation they usually have the backup of the preceptor and are more often managing their time according to the preceptors perferred time management skills, not their own.
It isn't until they are on their own that the real critical thinking and time management begins and like an eagle learning to fly we as preceptors and experienced nurses have to let them loose to make it on their own, with the understanding that they may fall a little bit but we won't let them hit the ground. Still they have to be let go to make it on their own. Again, this doesn't mean we take joy in their suffering, but when it's time to fly solo, it's time to fly solo.
I think that new nurses don't yet have the thick skin that we get over time, esp. when dealing with moody docs, difficult families and just different ways of communicationg. Sometimes people are considered rude, when all they are is rushing and brusque...or throwing out orders in an emergency can seem like something it's not...or asking questions to get a full report..yes, I have been accused of scaring the young ones, but then someone I work with pulls them aside and lets them know I am not from the area and communicate differently, but they can count on me for help and protection....I think though that certain nursing schools and managment perspectives are part of the problem....who the hell teaches that writing up another nurse protects you??? Unless it is life threatening or you are talking about an impaired nurse..the first step is talking to someone about a mistake..and then reassurring them they still have value...talking to management first is not supportive, it's a stab in the back ....yes, teach, correct and monitor, but don't forget we all have bad days, and take into the picture the patient outcome...and all those who think they are perfect nurses and don't make med errors..or that one error is any different a brain fart then any other error is fooling themselves...we need not only to take care of the new guys, but each other...esp. when going through a hard time...I think nursing could learn a lot from the 'brotherhood' of cops who stand together, don't make big things out of little things, and like the marines..'never leave someone behind.'
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i am sorry, but i must disagree....i have handled new grads without intimidation, rudeness, etc.....etc.....maybe i have just not encountered the type that others have posted about, but on the whole, the only thing i have seen lacking in new grads is experience.....time management comes later, they are not able to learn time management in clinicals...this comes with working the floor and finding your own ways to manage your work...
i don't thing making a new nurse "suffer" is going to be of any benefit to them.......
i've handled new grads without intimidation, rudeness, etc. etc. but i've unfortunately encountered more than a few new grads who not only don't have time management skills, but once they're off orientation they have no interest in developing them. they don't see the need to work any harder than they want to. i know where they got their bad work habits and lack of work ethic -- some of their preceptors never learned time management either.
i'm not talking about making a new nurse "suffer" as a gleeful way to get back at those folks who sit on their butts all day while i'm busting mine. but when my orientee could be looking up the procedure she's going to be doing for the first time in an hour, why should she be doing mike's work while he's showing you tube videos to his friends?
i'm all about teamwork. but that doesn't mean that i rush through my work so that i can do someone else's work for them while they hold down a seat at the nursing station. i'm happy to help you pull your patient up in bed, clean up poop or their arm down so you can restrain the demented old lady. but what i'm not willing to do -- for a new grad or an experienced nurse -- is clean up their patient, feed or turn their patient, start their ivs or draw their blood while they sit and gossip. and it's too bad that some folks only learn time management when their professional counterparts stop doing their work for them.
Specializes in telemetry, med-surg, home health, psych.
i've handled new grads without intimidation, rudeness, etc. etc. but i've unfortunately encountered more than a few new grads who not only don't have time management skills, but once they're off orientation they have no interest in developing them. they don't see the need to work any harder than they want to. i know where they got their bad work habits and lack of work ethic -- some of their preceptors never learned time management either.
i'm not talking about making a new nurse "suffer" as a gleeful way to get back at those folks who sit on their butts all day while i'm busting mine. but when my orientee could be looking up the procedure she's going to be doing for the first time in an hour, why should she be doing mike's work while he's showing you tube videos to his friends?
i'm all about teamwork. but that doesn't mean that i rush through my work so that i can do someone else's work for them while they hold down a seat at the nursing station. i'm happy to help you pull your patient up in bed, clean up poop or their arm down so you can restrain the demented old lady. but what i'm not willing to do -- for a new grad or an experienced nurse -- is clean up their patient, feed or turn their patient, start their ivs or draw their blood while they sit and gossip. and it's too bad that some folks only learn time management when their professional counterparts stop doing their work for them.
i have never done the work for a new nurse......i have shown them or talked them through procedures, tho.....
fortunately, i have not encountered any new nurses shunning their work in order to play on a computer....i just can't imagine that happening...i would have to put a stop to that, for sure....i do not pick up their pt. load while they sit and gossip.....if i see that, i remind them of their duties....but i have not encountered that very often, either....
i am not working in a teaching hospital so i guess i don't get the influx of new grads that a lot of you get....most i have seen have been very hard workers and willing to learn....
I'm sorry, I APPLAUD you for asking questions when you weren't sure of something. I've seen tragic things happen when new nurses DON'T ask and assume that they do know. What a shame for your coworkers and superiors to think that it was a BAD trait on your part!
I still ask questions. Often I know the answer, but it's helpful to have the reinforcement of knowing someone else feels the same way. Nurses I work with who've been on my unit 20+ years do the same thing, too. That's teamwork at it's best. Don't let this experience discourage you...there ARE places out there that foster and encourage questions!
As a new grad still orienting I was just ripped apart for asking questions. Sure, I thought I knew the answer but wanted confirmation my thinking was on-track. My preceptor is writing the manager now to suggest additional training or finding me another place to work. If I knew that was the outcome, I would not have dared to ask any questions. Darn! I though you could ask questions if you were orienting. Sorry for venting, but I thought the purpose of orienting was to get someone to talk to you and offer a second opinion or talk you through a procedure you have not done before. Until tonight, my preceptor had been telling me what a great job I've been doing. So tonight it is getting close to the end of orientation and I decided to ask questions so that when I am off orientation I will be an asset to the floor and a good nurse for my patients. I don't think I asked too many, I hope not? I feel horrible for asking questions. Yes, I realize I asked more than before. Maybe that is my fault, but still, if orienting you should be allowed to ask questions regardless of how long you have been orienting.
As a new grad still orienting I was just ripped apart for asking questions. Sure, I thought I knew the answer but wanted confirmation my thinking was on-track. My preceptor is writing the manager now to suggest additional training or finding me another place to work. If I knew that was the outcome, I would not have dared to ask any questions. Darn! I though you could ask questions if you were orienting. Sorry for venting and feeling sorry for myself. Might need to work on a resume.
While IMO this doesn't matter, can I ask what the question WAS that you asked?
I think, just from this post, that you have a bad preceptor. Suggesting another place for you to WORK in light asking a question to affirm your thinking? EVERYONE can/should do this, not just new grads! Good grief.
For what it's worth, I am sorry that you're dealing with this situation. And like I said in the post you quoted, NOT every preceptor and every facility is like this. I enjoy precepting, and love to answer questions...how else does someone LEARN?? Please don't wish you hadn't asked....it's still, despite the reaction you received, better to ask than not (like I've also said, I still do ask to make sure I'm on the right track, and I do it often...even after 7 years!).
Best of luck with this, hopefully your manager will see that you did NOTHING wrong and that your preceptor is being more than a little uptight.
queen777
208 Posts
i don't know you and you don't know the situation as mentioned above your remark. i was a "newbie" at the age of 38 yrs. old. i heard all kinds of remarks about me even the one "this is just mad money for you". who was she kidding? if i wanted mad money i certainly would not have chosen nursing to get it!
i needed help lots of times including the first time i strained my back because i was not allowed help. how dumb is that? the first thing we learned in nursing was that it's "a team effort". or so i thought.
my first job sucked in almost every way the crap i had to endure from the older nurses was absolutely uncalled for. another remark, "what's taking you so long to get vitals, are you down there fluffing their pillows?" this was a post op floor and almost everyone had a iv. i was busy walking with them to the br because the nurse from the prior shift never came back like she said she would!
come on, this is exactly why i quit nursing and i was a darn good one and i loved it, but i just couldn't take the "wars" everyday someone had something "smart" to say. that is not nursing and high school crap. even though i don't nurse and haven't in 10 yrs it still makes me mad because these no good nurses are still there, i guess they know how to hang with the possy.
oh and by the way, my last job i was a charge nurse as an lpn, i was told by my supervisor, i did a better job than most of his rns. i didn't like it because i felt used because those rns were making the big bucks not me.
oh and the rns that took care of my mother-in-law did nothing for her except hang her abts. she was dying, i called the code. i told one rn to take her food away because she would asperate and she did. and yes she finally did die.
please watch what you say because remarks like this just get me all fired up. those nurses on my first job were wrong, they just sat there all night and ate.