Do Not Send to Hospital From Nursing Home

Nurses General Nursing

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Is a do not send to hospital order valid? Is it valid in all situations? I had a DNRCC patient have a heart attack and was in a great deal of pain. He had a PRN order for nitro and it was given as directed with no relief. Followed directions that stated call dr. for further instructions with no relief from pain. Called dr. and advised as to situation, including DNRCC directive. He asked if the patient had orders for morphine, which the patient had no orders and was not a hospice patient. I also advised dr. that he could order the morphine, however in our rural setting the morphine would be difficult to obtain in a short period of time. It would take hours to get the needed pain medication. The doctor ordered the patient to go to the hospital to eval and treat for pain.

This is the 3rd shift and I am the only nurse. When the DON arrived in the morning, I was given the "what for" for sending this completely lucid patient to the hospital for pain management. The lucid patient was asking me for help and asking for something to make him feel better. I could not comply with anything other than Tylenol. The DON stated this patient has a do not send to the hospital order. I asked to see that order. It was nowhere to be found in the chart.

By the way, this patient came back from the hospital on round the clock morphine and ativan and on hospice. I am thinking this is exactly what I wanted to accomplish in the first place. How could I have handled this differently? What would you have done? My impression is that DNR CC specifically states that he is to get comfort care that I could not provide. Now I can provide this. Answers and advice please?!?!?!?!?! I will also be asking my DON for answers and advise. My impression was that I was to wait hours for the morphine, but I will assume nothing for the future.

Specializes in Med/Surg, DSU, Ortho, Onc, Psych.

Your DON is SO wrong! I would never not send a patient to the ED if necessary. She has no right to say that. How on earth can anyone write out a 'valid' order NOT to send someone to emergency?

This is what I was saying on another thread. If we nurses don't act like good little handmaidens, we get told off (like we're naughty children). If we advocate for a patient - even if the pt has asked us to - we get told off. We don't get backed up by senior nurses - even though it's part of their job - we get told off! Everybody can blame the nurse for things and tell us off, and we have no strong advocates FOR US. It has got to the point now where I am ashamed & embarrassed, to be part of nursing; I've seen this type of thing happen too often. And I have never seen people so humiliated as I have in nursing, not in any other job I have done anyway.

I'm sorry this happened but if it was me, I'd stick to my guns. No way down here we could not send a pt to the ED. If I think a pt needs to go, I send them, I don't care what anyone says. And I certainly would not be listening to some doctor telling me NOT to!!

I can't wait to get out of nursing now; I have applied to other jobs I've done & cannot wait to leave this field once my most urgent debts are paid.

Nursing just plain sucks.

Specializes in LTC, Hospice, Case Management.
i am sure there's no state or other regulation which mandates this, and leaving someone in pain for hours is completely unacceptable in many ways, not least of which is that the regulatory agencies really hate it and will scrutinize any complaint of lack of pain management. :

i am a don in ltc and i assure the op does know what she is talking about. there are very strict dea regs in place that make the whole pain medication a nightmare in ltc, especially in the middle of the night. check out this older thread that started a couple years back when the dea started causing havoc in our world.

https://allnurses.com/geriatric-nurses-ltc/dea-states-ltc-422271.html

although i didn't think the op was misrepresenting what her don told her, i couldn't believe it was possible to have that as a standard of care. i stand corrected, and thank you. that is...horrible.

Specializes in LTC, Hospice, Case Management.
although i didn't think the op was misrepresenting what her don told her, i couldn't believe it was possible to have that as a standard of care. i stand corrected, and thank you. that is...horrible.

yes it is absolutely horrible. the day i had to watch a dieing hospice patient literally screaming in pain while listening to the nurse screaming on the phone to a dr to fax the damn script already was the day i almost quit nursing. (the dr. office and dr. himself was having a difficult time coming to terms with the word stat - they had patients waiting "don'tcha know").

the worst is the state regs regarding timely pain management are in direct conflict with what the dea will allow us to do. it does put us in a real pickle sometimes and patients suffer as a result.

Specializes in LTC, OB, psych.

Well done. I have sent pts to the hospital for needful things, and sometimes there have been pretty specific occasions when the POA does want pt. to be sent.

Am also reminded of the time my DON dressed me down for getting hospice orders for a pt. "That is taking money out of our pockets!" I didn't even want to know what her bottom-line reasoning was; the pt. would have benefited from the aggressive pain control that hospice care provides.

Umm..do not listen to don. She will prevent you from sending patient to the hospital because they will loae money from it. Ive dealt with the same situation many times. Advanced direcrives shiuld have specific instructions such a cpr.iv.labs and hospitalization and poa should answe either yes or no. So of you didnt see it on patients chart then patient should be transferred if patient need to go. I would call the poa and ask if its okay to send patient. And you chart it. Tell the don family wished patient to go to the hospital. I had hospice patient to sent to the hospital because family's wish. Your don is not going to protect you if patient is a limitwd dnr like yours and you didnt take the corect action.

Specializes in LTC, OB, psych.

I do wonder about some DONs . . . had one rip up a repeat telephone order for eye drops because they were not on some formulary. Never would I want to work in a for-profit LTC place, ever again.

Your DON is SO wrong! I would never not send a patient to the ED if necessary. She has no right to say that. How on earth can anyone write out a 'valid' order NOT to send someone to emergency?

This is what I was saying on another thread. If we nurses don't act like good little handmaidens, we get told off (like we're naughty children). If we advocate for a patient - even if the pt has asked us to - we get told off. We don't get backed up by senior nurses - even though it's part of their job - we get told off! Everybody can blame the nurse for things and tell us off, and we have no strong advocates FOR US. It has got to the point now where I am ashamed & embarrassed, to be part of nursing; I've seen this type of thing happen too often. And I have never seen people so humiliated as I have in nursing, not in any other job I have done anyway.

I'm sorry this happened but if it was me, I'd stick to my guns. No way down here we could not send a pt to the ED. If I think a pt needs to go, I send them, I don't care what anyone says. And I certainly would not be listening to some doctor telling me NOT to!!

I can't wait to get out of nursing now; I have applied to other jobs I've done & cannot wait to leave this field once my most urgent debts are paid.

Nursing just plain sucks.

These are not uncommon with specific EOL care wishes. MOST allow for transport for acute problems. If the patient/resident is very demented, some choose to have comfort measures and/or hospice brought in - and not transferred. It was a fairly common order when I worked LTC. :) HERE- in LTC- the family rules... ya have to have the order- but the doc asks the family or POAH.

Specializes in A myriad of specialties.

You clearly wrote in your post that no such order(i.e., "do not send to hospital") was found in the chart. Bet that DON found that she was eating some crow, huh?

You advocated for the patient. You followed the MD's order. You did VERY WELL.

Specializes in NICU.

Shouldn't the new order to send him to the hospital override his old order to not hospitalize?

With just a prn tylenol- i keep in mind the next pain med with no script needed was ultram possibly that would have held the resident till a.m

With just a prn tylenol- i keep in mind the next pain med with no script needed was ultram possibly that would have held the resident till a.m

In many LTCs that is treated as a "control" and would req same ordering format.

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