Do you believe that socioeconomics and educations are biggest factors?

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tarotale

453 Posts

"Bottom line is, I haven't encountered bad behaviors that frustrate me from people of high ed, high socio compared to the ones from low ed and low socio (at least enough to remember)"

And yet, I have. Just last Friday, Saturday, and even Sunday, I got to experience three daughters of a sick elderly man unleashing a barrage of ridiculous requests and upper-class temper tantrums when no, I won't call the hospitalist at 1830 because you wanted to hear from him in person that there is no IV tegretol even though I explained it, my charge explained it, and even the f***** on-site pharmacist explained it. Times three, for each daughter who each had her own little crusade she'd picked. They just used bigger, fancier words to accuse me of sitting on my ass all day.

Actually, I had horrible behaviors from family and patients from all walks of life, and wonderful behaviors from the same broad spectrum.

Maybe its because I come into the room not knowing a danged thing about their "background" and I therefore don't have the chance to pre-judge the pt and give myself a lens in which to view them through.

Or you could be the first to prove your theory that low-income folks are horrible brutes. Maybe a Nobel prize. Margaret Sanger would be thrilled, I'm sure.

and as stated again, i guess since you skipped that part, let me reiterate it again. this is my idea, which came forth from my own experiences, my own work experiences, experiences from my coworkers, experienced in my workplace that is located in a state and city and region where i live, my daily life, my daily hours, my daily minutes, my daily seconds... hew, I hope that has narrowed down enough for you that maybe, just maybe you and I might not work in the same place or encountered similar experiences.

Look, I hate how the topic is getting further from my original intent, so let's focus on it, and I do appreciate the posters who actually decided to think and post before bursting into unfortunate barrage of comments. I kind of suspected a possibility of topics flying off the course due to lot of people overreacting and misreading anything and everything that has even remote relevance to socioeconomics and such.

Generalization is a generalization. They change as cultures change, regions change, people change, etc etc. I can't say that certain people is probably like this in Canada or new england because certain people are like that here. As such, I can't say that all people with high ed and socio will behave in such exact manner because if they do here, they must over there as well; doesn't work that way, and that's why I am emphasizing this is based on MY experience. You can tell me your theory/story whatever based on YOUR experience (which you already have and thank you very much). In terms of frequency/consistency, let's say you like apple from company A when you lived in area A. You move to area B and you buy the same apple from the same company, and it taste like crap. You buy it over and over expecting better result since you always had apples from company A when you lived in area A, but they are still crap in area B. So after 10 apples, you say screw this, no more apples in company A. This is generalization. You will very unlikely buy apples from company A ever again because you generalized that they suck. But why? Maybe rival company in area B instilled propaganda to anger workers in company A harvesting apples in area B, so workers do half-butt job so quality goes down, maybe the climate in area B is not as good as area A for apples, so the taste is worse, maybe company A in area B uses different fertilizer, maybe atomic bomb dropped in area B 140 years ago still makes crops taste crappy, etc etc. But see what's changed, your perception and generalization about apple from company A because of frequent, consistent experiences. There you go. I just explained generalization, frequency and consistency, so maybe this can help in realizing that I am saying what I think based on my experiences so now you can spread the wings of your thoughts based on yours? Thank you everyone!

Farawyn

12,646 Posts

Well, isn't that what a message board is? An exchange of ideas?

YES, I get your statement. You don't need to clarify again.

I don't agree with you. This does not mean I don't understand you, or am not thinking this out and leaping into a barrage, or not spreading the wings of my thoughts.

I don't agree with you. My experiences are not the same as yours.

Well, if you don't want anyone disagreeing with your anecdotal evidence with anecdotal evidence of their own, what exactly do you want? I missed the line in your OP that indicated only agreeing posts allowed. You can explain frequency and generalization all you want, when it comes down to it, your experience is just as valid/invalid as my own as they are both BIASED and ANECDOTAL. Neither are significantly statistically relevant.

You can "explain" your position all day, but there's a reason debate coaches will boil you alive if you rely on generalization to build your case.

(They hate hyperbole too, so it's a good thing there isn't one nearby!)

Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

The daughter in FawnMarie's example is only "afraid of black people" because that's what she's been taught by her parents.

Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

So, in a nutshell OP, you only want to work in hospitals that have wealthy, educated patients? That's what I am reading between the lines in your last few sentences.

Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

I can honestly say I don't have an "undesirable category" when it comes to patients. I'm shaking my head that you do OP. :eek:

Hi,

What a great topic!

I think class and education has no bearing or rather correlation. I use the term class as in; the preceived notion of social status. I work with some people that could SHOULD know better in regards to social situations but totally miss the buck.

it will be awesome however if we can have a good topic WITHOUT people getting into an arguement. like really is this high school?

Specializes in Emergency/Cath Lab.

If I have learned anything, it is that every class, race, gender, religion, creed, sexuality, education level, background can/will be jerks.

zmansc, ASN, RN

867 Posts

Specializes in Emergency.

OP -

Now look up perception and see how your biased view against low education/socioeconomic level people is altering your perception of your interactions with them. One of the most difficult things to do is to not let your biases cause you to prejudge your views of your patients. In fact it is impossible to do, but hopefully we will all learn to reduce those biases, because there are good people of every category as well as bad people of every category.

Back when I lived in the DFW area, I had some interactions with a federal judge, when I first met him, he was dressed like a bum, ratty, dirty t-shirt, jeans, old broken down tennis shoes, and people avoided even noticing that he was there. I was working a second job in a drug store, he came in every day and bought a cigar. He had been doing this for several years, but I had just started there. No one there would pay him any attention, they didn't want to know this bum. At first, I just started with the pleasantries, Hello, have a nice day, see you tomorrow, etc. As time went on, we talked a bit more, and he told me the reason he came in like he did, daily, dressed like a bum was because his wife hated his habit of smoking a cigar, and wouldn't let him have any at home, so he needed to go out every day if he was going to enjoy his cigar habit, but he didn't like going out looking like a federal judge because he would get stopped, if he went out looking like a bum, then he wouldn't be stopped because everyone just ignored bums! Not every bum is a bum.

When I first started in the ED we had a patient coming in fairly frequently, several times a week most weeks. He was in a lot of pain from ascites and other complications due to liver failure issues. His ammonia level was so out of whack it actually was causing him neurological issues and he wouldn't answer your questions correctly sometimes. He was always dressed in dirty clothes, probably all he owned, smelled of nicotine, and unkempt. Many of my coworkers were fed up with him, they thought he was just a pain med seeker who happened to have whacked ammonia levels. I looked at him differently, as a patient with an underlying medical problem that caused immense pain that deserved to be treated while he waited for a transplant.

He had a lot of visits where he needed alot of care, some staff figured it out and would treat him well, despite his appearance, others would not. If he was treated well, he would be fully cooperative, if not he would be a raging....um....jerk. As he got to know me, he always cooperated with me, even when I was having difficulty getting the providers to give him anything. Near the end, we were taking 4-6L off twice a week, and by then most of the staff realized he had medical needs and addressed him with a bit more compassion.

He had his transplant not long after that, hasn't been into the ER since. I saw him once about six months after around town, didn't recognize him at all, but he recognized me. Came up to me and told me who he was, said he appreciated our care, and that he was 75 lbs lighter now, most of that was water weight, but he had been working to keep his weight down (he was a big, big dude, well over 6'6" and big in every way). He had a niece with him, told me his sister had died while he was going through his medical problems, niece and him were living in a travel trailer as it was all he could afford, but he knew he had to make it to raise her because he was all she had. He was still about as unkempt as could be and looked like he needed a couple showers, new clothes, etc. But, he was always and is a working, productive member of society who cares for his family and is trying to better himself and his niece, he deserves our care with as much compassion as we can muster.

I have no doubt that your personal experience supports your opinion, but which came first? I bet your biased perception is causing your actions to be different in ways you may not even recognize towards those that you believe are more likely to treat you poorly. Because of how you interact with these people, they react and interact differently with you too. And because of how others in your workplace interacted with them in the past, they assume you will interact with them in those same ways. So, in effect, you and your coworkers who have a perception of poor behaviors from this population cause this belief to become true. The only way to break the cycle is to try to change your behaviors and go out of your way to show them that you will not perpetuate the cycle. It's a very tall order, and one that is not always successful.

Farawyn

12,646 Posts

If I have learned anything, it is that every class, race, gender, religion, creed, sexuality, education level, background can/will be jerks.

Or amazing people!

Specializes in Emergency/Cath Lab.
Or amazing people!

Oh most certainly, and they are the majority too.

CardiacKittyRN

144 Posts

Specializes in Cardiac.

I don't believe this is always true. Some people are just u RUDE. Rich or poor, educated or not. Some of the nicest, most thankful patients I have had come from lower socioeconomic groups. Often, I find it is the "better off" people who appear more entitled and demanding. Be careful not to judge based on education and class. I know it's easy to generalize, but really try to approach each specific patient as an individual and make your own assumptions not based on class or education level. As for where you could work and see less or what you described.. I'm guessing no such place exists! We will always get those demanding, entitled, ignorant patients/family members whenever we work because people like unfortunately are EVERYWHERE.

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