I was just recently told that I should withdraw from the program because I would not pass clinical. I (at the time ) was told that I could reapply to the school and perhaps be readmitted. So I dropped. I have been having CONTINUOUS issues with this program and its instructors, and I had many complaints from hospital staff, but I have tried to address the issues. I have received complaints of unsafe clinical behavior, but it has been something like a one time incident of forgetting to remove my gloves before stepping out of a pt's room. I also was told I am not performing an acceptable physical health assessment when I examine my patient. I took Health Assessment in the fall of 2006, and haven't had any of it since. I reapplied to the program and took the tests and everything and submitted my application to re-enter the program the next year. My plans were to retake health assessment since my instructors have pointed out deficiencies in my physical assessment while in clinical, then I would go back and retake common concepts of adult health (med-surge 1) and be delayed for a year. It sounds like a good plan on paper so far, huh?
Skip ahead another couple of weeks to a week after my reapplication... I got a letter in the mail from the director of our nursing program stating that I would not be readmitted to the program due to "unsafe clinical behavior". Now I don't know what to do... Personally, I don't see my clinical behavior any different than the majority of the students in the program, I seem to get more difficult patients with more critical issues such as morbid obesity, inability to move, and such. I now have to apply to another program. However, one of the problems I face with that is previous program dismissal.
I can apply to another program, and I will more than likely get in, but so many of the other programs around here want you to be able to return to your previous program. What to do...
I really don't want to go to the Nursing Department and rehash all of this again, as the staff there (all 4 of them) are of the opinion that I shouldn't ever BE a NURSE! I am mad, tired, discouraged, and doubtful at this point. FORGET all the accolades I have had previous to this program, but now, the Nursing Department doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with me. They don't even want to entertain the idea of me being back in their program. Our director is a REAL BIGWIG she is the former president of the Texas Nursing Association, and she is like a nursing God or something.
My current plan of action is to apply to another nearby program that is in a separate college nearby. I just feel like I should have had a second chance with this first program. And What about the Clinically unsafe opinions? That frightens me b/c I haven't been any different than any of the other students I have been on the unit with. I sort of feel like I have been hung out to twist in the wind by my instructors. I don't feel supported or taught or encouraged by any of them. I feel that I was judged harshly, and I am HUGELY DISSAPOINTED by my nursing instructors. I feel that I have only been criticized for my errors, and NOT shown a better way of anything. I am undecided about how to handle this dismissal.
Now I am actually close personal friends with the Dean of Students at this school. Should I involve her? Should I complain to the Dean of Students about this dismissal/denial of readmission, or should I just move on and reapply to this next program?
Currently I am just so let down by my level of instruction and I am really disheartened by the whole experience.
Here are my courses and grades so far:
Fall 2004: Lifespan Growth and Dev. 2314- A
Sp 2005: A&P1 - A
Summer 2005: Psych 2301 (intro) - A
Spring 2006: A & P 2 - B
Summer2006: English 1301 - A
Fall 2006: Health Assessment - A
Spring 2007: Microbiology - A
Fall 2007: Dosage Calculation - A
Spring 2008: Medical Spanish - A
Fall 2008: Foundations of Nursing - B
Fall 2008: Clinical for Foundations - B
Spring 2009: Med Surge 1 (Common Concepts of Adult Health) Withdrew - W
Spring 2009: Clinical for Med Surge 1 - Withdrew - W
Yes she should have moved- only after asculating the lungs (the rest of the assessment can be done later),but if she was lets say asculating the apical pulse,I think it would be polite of the doctor to wait until she finished,the respect is earned and mutual,why should I respect the doc if he doesnt respect me,he is not my boss....my point is I wound never be so rude to anybody if they were to asculate lungs or a pulse...Why should I drop everything and salute to the doctor,he is not a God.Behavior like this contributes to doctor mistreating the nurses and no I'm not trying to be rude..
I don't mean to imply that the docs are gods. I just know that as a student I have just a few pts. I can auscultate those lungs in 5 minutes after the doc is done. An apical pulse takes 60 seconds, no biggie unless the pt is crashing and then doc can take over! Once I know the doc it might be fine to finish, but as a student I know that I'm a guest in that hospital and am grateful to be there. If they need supplies, I run and get them. If they need the chart and ask me if I can grab it for them, I do. I've never had a doc disrespect me and I've never disrespected one of them. I've also never had one complain about me. I've seen docs arrive for rounds at 6am and see them still at 7pm visiting their pts. Now, perhaps they played some golf in that time frame, I don't know, but I know we are all working towards a common goal: the pt. They have priority. Just my 2 cents though.
The issue with the physician is simply about time management. The pt needs to see the physician, not the nurse and not the student. That is the reality of our health care system.
Once I know the doc it might be fine to finish, but as a student I know that I'm a guest in that hospital and am grateful to be there..... They have priority.
Specializes in acute rehab, med surg, LTC, peds, home c.
I have precepted and taught in an LPN program. I will say that some students attitudes got on my nerves. Some act like know it alls and try to impress you with their knowledge in a most obnoxious way like putting other nurses and students down, questioning doctors as if they know more. It really is annoying. However I would never go out of my way to fail a student or get them thrown out of the school just based on how I felt about them personally. However if they were unsafe and working under my license, they would definitely be looked at under a microscope.
If you do get into another program, my advise to you would be talk less and be prepared. My favorite students were the ones I could trust because they did their research and knew what they were doing. They did not convey this by telling me but rather by showing me. The best students are the ones that are quiet and just do their work, no drama, no bad mouthing anybody and no kissing up.
the real reason for this post is to help us all realize that what we say is not necessarly what people hear.
i barely noticed that there was another person in the room. i said something like i'm almost done, and he complained to the charge nurse.
the appropriate thing imho would have been to at least acknowledge that there was someone else in the room!!as someone else said, many times docs have tight schedules. believe it or not, i have given up my chair if i can move and the doc needs a space. i would like to get my new orders more than i want to keep my sense of equality:wink2:
i went outside a pt's room once with gloves still on.
oops !! watch out for the infection control police
once when i was beginning to take 2 patients (as our program transitions us) i asked alot of questions to my primary nurse, and she stated to my instructor that i seemed unsafe.
questions are great, as long as they were not covered in report, something you should know or can look up. many hospitals have internet access on the unit. if so, it might have been a great resource for some questions.
i had not done anything like give meds without a nurse or w/o checking them.
was it the time in your rotation to begin to do this? if so you may have to become more confidant and do it. check the 5 rs and if you gut says no, check with someone else, even nurses who have done this for 25 years still check with their fellow nurses to see fi it sounds right to them.:wink2:
i have had problems with a perfect physical assessment. and that was mentioned a few times. so i paid more attention to that part of my practice. i practiced my assessments and tutored with our instructor (student aide) who helped me fine tune my physical assessment. i also took steps to correct the complaints leveled against me. i noticed that my instructor did not offer me much in the way of advice or guidance, just disappointment when someone would complain.
this would stink. when i was on peds rotation my instructor told me i had no maternal instince whatsoever. that felt good.:lol_hitti
i didn't return to the room because i didn't want to return empty-handed, and the othernnurse in the pt room told me she would be right with me. if i left and she showed up and i was gone, i thought that would be non-productive and just cause more problems. when i was a kid, my dad always told me to wait.
you aren't a kid any more. i would have stuck my head in the door and tell the pt something like "i'm still trying to find the dang hoyer lift. are you still ok? (btw, you are 39 and not a kid anymore)
i will agree i could have made better decisions and such, but so far, nothing really unsafe. my health assessment skills i will agree need improvement as i have had trouble finding the right places to listen for things like murmurs and i have had problems hearing wheezes.
are you having troubles hearing fine wheezes or wheezes that others notice right away. that may be a reason to have an examination, seriously!
i just really don't think my clinical performance amounts to unsafe practice since i am a student.
"i am a student" isn't a endearing thing to say to your instructor!
i was helping her and she began to cough, and i finished packing a stage 4 tunneling pressure ulcer with exposed bone. i packed the wound with some type of silver nitrate soaked sterile cloth and dressed the wound. i was so proud of myself!!!
this is great! i love to assess and pack really deep nasty woulds, when i see them get better i feel like i can see a really visable part of my work. also, it is great to be able to help.
i really do appreciate all y'alls feedback, and i have already ordered some dvds and books to read and watch over the summer.
it does sould like your are working hard. keep up the effort.
or maybe she should invest in a better stethoscope.when i had my cheap stethoscope i could barely hear anything....when i got littman it made all the difference in the world.
it is worth to mention that a lot of times we student are scared to mention to the nurse about some abnormal sounds because we are unsure if we are right.just like the other day i noticed the left diminished breath sounds in a patient and when the nurse asked me how are his lungs i said clear,and then she asculate and told me she hears some diminished sounds!
OP - if after asking for more specific feedback and recommendations, you don't reach any more clarity on why you were dismissed, it may be time to let it go and move on. If YOU still want to be a nurse and think that you can do it, there's no reason not to continue pursuing that. However, I'd suggest doing more than just applying for other programs.
While it may be true that it wasn't clear or fair why you were dismissed, you can use this as an OPPORTUNITY to build your professional skills and experience. Work as a CNA and/or unit secretary and try to find some nurses who will teach you and build your basic skills and confidence. Then apply to another program. You'll be that much farther ahead both in school and in starting out as a new grad because ALL related experience will benefit you. And that experience also may help you determine exactly what direction you want to head or help you land the job you want out of school.
There are MANY opportunities you can take advantage of by NOT being an RN as soon as your classmates, such learning additional skills like phlebotomy or telemetry monitoring without the added pressure of being a new RN with full RN responsibility for a full load of patients. Scour your area for special nursing student opportunities such as a good nurse extern program that offers lots of hands-on work.
As others have said, instructors can't fail you without real reasons. They are looking out for the safety of the general public. It really doesn't sound like this is a situation where you made an innocent learning mistake and they unfairly kicked you out of school for it. It sounds more like there were multiple issues that they DID inform you of but you failed to correct, leaving them with no other option but to keep you from moving forward. If your skills aren't at least satisfactory, even after multiple chances to revalidate, why should they let you pass? I do know that there is some unfairness that goes on in nursing school, but I'm just trying to give you my honest opinion after reading your post.
Or maybe she should invest in a better stethoscope.When I had my cheap stethoscope I could barely hear anything....when I got Littman it made all the difference in the world.
It is worth to mention that a lot of times we student are scared to mention to the nurse about some abnormal sounds because we are unsure if we are right.Just like the other day I noticed the left diminished breath sounds in a patient and when the nurse asked me how are his lungs I said clear,and then she asculate and told me she hears some diminished sounds!
I don't understand why you didn't tell the nurse what you really heard? Why would you be scared? It made you look as though you don't know your breath sounds yet, when you really did.
I do agree that you need the reasons for your dismissal spelt out to you so that you can improve. I work with many nursing instructors and precept students at several levels in nursing. Nursing instructors/preceptors are not out to "fail" students at all. Rather, we want caring, competent students. In order to achieve this goal, communication must be a two way street.
Good luck.
The important part to remember, though, is "communication" in itself won't give you a caring, competent student.
However, I was on one unit (the med surge unit) for all of my rotation
I barely noticed that there was another person in the room. that won't fly in OBI have had problems with a perfect physical assessment. and that was mentioned a few times. more than one is a major problem in first semester..ur in second right?WE were instructed to NOT answer call lights then why bother to give your patient one everytime you leave the room? I volunteered to go look for the lift. so everything you after the act of volunteering is on you I had a pt who had to go to the bathroom I didn't return to the room because I didn't want to return empty-handed, and the othernnurse in the pt room told me She would be right with me. If I left and she showed up and I was gone, I thought that would be non-productive and just cause more problems. She also said that I didn't answer a call light that morning. that I just went to the door and waited for her to get there.were you under the assumption a teacher must be with you any time you enter your patient's room? At the hospital, We weren't even supposed to do that! I will agree I could have made better decisions. My health assessment skills I will agree need improvement as I have had trouble finding the right places to listen for things like murmurs when were you assessed on these skills? I ask because I learned them last semester, so even if its a challenging skill you're expected to have perfected it for the remainder of your nursing career and I have had problems hearing wheezes you dont really need a scope for this. Also when I performed a Phys. Assessment on a pt who had osteoporosis I neglected to state Kyphosis in her assessment osteoporosis usually goes with some sort of spinal or hip issue. I mentioned no spinal curvatures. (I was thinking of scoliosis). and she had age spots, and I mentioned that her back seemed pretty clear. whats pretty clear?
Forget the STAGE 4 pressure ulcer that I had to finish packing for one of the primary nurses at the hospital because she was sick and about to leave the unit. You know there weren't any instructors watching me THEN don't ya! I hope you didn't brag about this to anyone because this is your BIGGEST mistake.
this only my second semester with a clinical. I feel that other students may not have received complaints like I did, but you can sure bet that they weren't doing the same risky procedures or having the other problems I had either when were you told to perform risky procedures and why would any student have a patient without multiple problems? Besides, didnt you pick your patient?
!! watch out for the infection control police
chevyv, BSN, RN
1,679 Posts
I don't mean to imply that the docs are gods. I just know that as a student I have just a few pts. I can auscultate those lungs in 5 minutes after the doc is done. An apical pulse takes 60 seconds, no biggie unless the pt is crashing and then doc can take over! Once I know the doc it might be fine to finish, but as a student I know that I'm a guest in that hospital and am grateful to be there. If they need supplies, I run and get them. If they need the chart and ask me if I can grab it for them, I do. I've never had a doc disrespect me and I've never disrespected one of them. I've also never had one complain about me. I've seen docs arrive for rounds at 6am and see them still at 7pm visiting their pts. Now, perhaps they played some golf in that time frame, I don't know, but I know we are all working towards a common goal: the pt. They have priority. Just my 2 cents though.