dismissed from my ADN program HELP

[Laura77598]

Hello allnurses,

I'm still in a state of SHOCK right now...

I was just recently told that I should withdraw from the program because I would not pass clinical. I (at the time ) was told that I could reapply to the school and perhaps be readmitted. So I dropped. I have been having CONTINUOUS issues with this program and its instructors, and I had many complaints from hospital staff, but I have tried to address the issues. I have received complaints of unsafe clinical behavior, but it has been something like a one time incident of forgetting to remove my gloves before stepping out of a pt's room. I also was told I am not performing an acceptable physical health assessment when I examine my patient. I took Health Assessment in the fall of 2006, and haven't had any of it since. I reapplied to the program and took the tests and everything and submitted my application to re-enter the program the next year. My plans were to retake health assessment since my instructors have pointed out deficiencies in my physical assessment while in clinical, then I would go back and retake common concepts of adult health (med-surge 1) and be delayed for a year. It sounds like a good plan on paper so far, huh?

Skip ahead another couple of weeks to a week after my reapplication... I got a letter in the mail from the director of our nursing program stating that I would not be readmitted to the program due to "unsafe clinical behavior". Now I don't know what to do... Personally, I don't see my clinical behavior any different than the majority of the students in the program, I seem to get more difficult patients with more critical issues such as morbid obesity, inability to move, and such. I now have to apply to another program. However, one of the problems I face with that is previous program dismissal.

I can apply to another program, and I will more than likely get in, but so many of the other programs around here want you to be able to return to your previous program. What to do...

I really don't want to go to the Nursing Department and rehash all of this again, as the staff there (all 4 of them) are of the opinion that I shouldn't ever BE a NURSE! I am mad, tired, discouraged, and doubtful at this point. FORGET all the accolades I have had previous to this program, but now, the Nursing Department doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with me. They don't even want to entertain the idea of me being back in their program. Our director is a REAL BIGWIG she is the former president of the Texas Nursing Association, and she is like a nursing God or something.

My current plan of action is to apply to another nearby program that is in a separate college nearby. I just feel like I should have had a second chance with this first program. And What about the Clinically unsafe opinions? That frightens me b/c I haven't been any different than any of the other students I have been on the unit with. I sort of feel like I have been hung out to twist in the wind by my instructors. I don't feel supported or taught or encouraged by any of them. I feel that I was judged harshly, and I am HUGELY DISSAPOINTED by my nursing instructors. I feel that I have only been criticized for my errors, and NOT shown a better way of anything. I am undecided about how to handle this dismissal.

Now I am actually close personal friends with the Dean of Students at this school. Should I involve her? Should I complain to the Dean of Students about this dismissal/denial of readmission, or should I just move on and reapply to this next program?

Currently I am just so let down by my level of instruction and I am really disheartened by the whole experience.

Here are my courses and grades so far:

Fall 2004: Lifespan Growth and Dev. 2314- A

Sp 2005: A&P1 - A

Summer 2005: Psych 2301 (intro) - A

Spring 2006: A & P 2 - B

Summer2006: English 1301 - A

Fall 2006: Health Assessment - A

Spring 2007: Microbiology - A

Fall 2007: Dosage Calculation - A

Spring 2008: Medical Spanish - A

Fall 2008: Foundations of Nursing - B

Fall 2008: Clinical for Foundations - B

Spring 2009: Med Surge 1 (Common Concepts of Adult Health) Withdrew - W

Spring 2009: Clinical for Med Surge 1 - Withdrew - W

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Laura

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

I do agree that you need the reasons for your dismissal spelt out to you so that you can improve. I work with many nursing instructors and precept students at several levels in nursing. Nursing instructors/preceptors are not out to "fail" students at all. Rather, we want caring, competent students. In order to achieve this goal, communication must be a two way street.

Good luck.

[lovehospital]

So true I hate working with "super nurses" that feel they never ever need help and are even offended if you offer to help. Reminds me of a male nurse (not that his gender was of any significance) I worked with on a medical floor.... he was running around like a chicken with his head cut off complaining about how behind he is and how stupid docs are (lol his usual M.O.) and what not....I was totally caught up and so I see he is getting a new patient.....the techs are all really busy and he doesn't even notice the patient he is so busy.......so I fugure I can help, I am not busy........ So I find him shortly after and tell him "your new admit arrived and I know you are slammed so I got him settled.....weighed him, checked his admit orders and it seems he is on 2L O2 so that on, his fluids are running and I hung a new bag of NS......he urinated 550cc and I started an I&O sheet for him and put it on there. His paperwork is in his nurse server (outside his room) He is all tucked in and I let him know you would be in as soon as you were able. Just wanted to let you know, can I help with anything else...I know it's been a rough day for you?"

Well here I thought I was being nice and doing for another nurse what I would love to have done for me when I am slammed.........

Nope! He turned to me and yelled at me!!! lol yes! lol "I am perfectly capable of taking care of my own patients. I don't need your help or anyone elses! So you just do your work and I'll do mine!! Okay?!?!?"

WOW! I was shocked! That's what I mean by super nurse! Funny thing is he is a very good nurse, when he feel like it! lol and can be very fun to work with ....very funny.......however he could turn on a dime! I swear he had dissociative Personality D/O! LOL

So long story nothing wrong with asking for help. Better to be safe then sorry. Especially when ambulating a possibly unstable patient, turning a patient...etc.

I really wish to work with nurses like once I graduate.I hope I wont get slammed when I ask for help!

"Super nurse",hahah you just cracked me completely:hhmth:

[lovehospital]

I do agree that you need the reasons for your dismissal spelt out to you so that you can improve. I work with many nursing instructors and precept students at several levels in nursing. Nursing instructors/preceptors are not out to "fail" students at all. Rather, we want caring, competent students. In order to achieve this goal, communication must be a two way street.

Good luck.

But you have to admit there are some evil,mean,crazy and condescending as well as incompetent nursing instructors out there

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

They are rare! I work at five hospitals currently and have worked at many more over the years and I just don't see that at all.

[truern]

I can honestly say that all my instructors in NS were supportive and very professional...with the exception of one that made no bones about the fact that she didn't like males in nursing. I "shielded" the one male in our clinical group from her whenever we saw her coming. Other than that, though, even she was a great instructor.

I learned a lot from *all* my instuctors. I think when students have problems they truly need to look inward and reflect on what it is that they're not doing or doing that is unacceptable. I don't think instructors for the most part "have it in" for students with the hopes of failing them.

[Matt,RN]

Hello there,

I realize that others have taken the opportunity to suggest that you evaluate yourself before anything else, so I will move on from that suggestion and go to my next impression.

You know, just as others have said, "sometimes instructors weed out or judge students unjustly." I am ending the first semester of my Nursing Program very shortly here and I have found the instructors to be an interesting type. Myself along with a really good friend of mine who is also in the program with me have been judged and treated differently because we are both Emergency Medical Technicians and we have been for some time now. Because of this, we have trouble differentiating what we can and cannot do in the hospital so far. We have role difficulties. Initially, our instructors did not appreciate how comfortable we seemed in the hospital setting and seemed to resent what little knowledge our past experience gave us. Anyway, getting to the point, in my opinion, if you honestly feel you have been treated unfairly and those instructors are not working with you, go somewhere else and get into a different program.

Why fight to get back into a program with the same instructors that do not help you and do not teach you what you need to become a nurse?

Honestly, go somewhere you are more comfortable and can get along with the instructors better and maybe that environment will be a better learning experience for you.

Hope I helped at all.

-Matt

[Laura77598]

I would never say that I did not make mistakes, However, I was on one unit (the med surge unit) for all of my rotation , and while I was on this unit, I was in the room examining a pt with my back to the door when a Dr. came in to examine the patient. He was very quiet and unassuming. I had my back to the door and was giving a physical assessment on a female patient 38 y.o. I had my scope down the pt's gown listening to her heart and was continuing with my assessment to her back and abdomen. I barely noticed that there was another person in the room. I said something like I'm almost done, and he complained to the charge nurse. That was my first complaint. I went outside a pt's room once with gloves still on. That was another complaint. once when I was beginning to take 2 patients (as our program transitions us) I asked aLOT of questions to my primary nurse, and she stated to my instructor that I seemed unsafe. I had not done anything like give meds without a nurse or w/o checking them. I have had problems with a perfect physical assessment. and that was mentioned a few times. So I paid more attention to that part of my practice. I practiced my assessments and tutored with our instructor (student aide) who helped me fine tune my physical assessment. I also took steps to correct the complaints leveled against me. I noticed that my instructor did not offer me much in the way of advice or guidance, just disappointment when someone would complain. Now all of the other students were put on other floors from time to time. They were on floor 5S for about 4-5 times then moved to 6E for a while then to OR then to RR and so on. I mostly stayed on 5S. WE were instructed to NOT answer call lights or the phone or anything while on the unit. Then 1/2 way through semester, I was transferred to 2 days at the LTC facility. I went there and my 1st pt was a 700 lb man who could not even sit up by himself. I was to go to get a hydraulic lift to help this pt stand and use the toilet. I volunteered to go look for the lift. When I went to the station (located centrally) NOT A SINGLE NURSE WAS AT THE STATION!!! NOT EVEN A TECH OR A SECRETARY NO ONE!!!!!I went to the other floors (same level just diff hallways) and found a nurse who was w/a pt but she said she would help me with the lift in a minute. I went to the Nurses station and sat down to chart for a few minutes and wait for this nurse. Before she returned my instructor came to the station and low and behold I was the only person at the station sitting down, charting!!!!!!!!! HOW DARE I?????? When I had a pt who had to go to the bathroom and my instructor and 2 other students in the room with my pt. I may as well have had a boc of DONUTS and a cup of COFFEE with me! I didn't return to the room because I didn't want to return empty-handed, and the othernnurse in the pt room told me She would be right with me. If I left and she showed up and I was gone, I thought that would be non-productive and just cause more problems. When I was a kid, my dad always told me to wait. not to go off by myself and do it myself. So I sat at the stationand my INSTRUCTOR came out first. She was NONE too happy with the fact that I was charting. I had a chance to explain this to her, but she was already upset and didn't really care about my explanation. She also said that I didn't answer a call light that morning. that I just went to the door and waited for her to get there. At the hospital, We weren't even supposed to do that! How did I know the rules changed all of a sudden. Then she tells me that she wants to see more initiative from me. I show great initiative , but I never seem to do what they want me to do when they want me to do it. The letter I got makes me sound like I go around with rusty needles dosing patients in the middle of shift or something. I will agree I could have made better decisions and such, but so far, nothing really UNSAFE. My health assessment skills I will agree need improvement as I have had trouble finding the right places to listen for things like murmurs and I have had problems hearing wheezes. Also when I performed a Phys. Assessment on a pt who had osteoporosis I neglected to state Kyphosis in her assessment. I mentioned no spinal curvatures. (I was thinking of scoliosis). and she had age spots, and I mentioned that her back seemed pretty clear. (I was thinking no lesions sores or scars or cuts- I didn't realistically think that AGE SPOTS on a 78 y.o. pt was THAT UNUSUAL! I got in trouble for that also. I just really don't think my clinical performance amounts to unsafe practice since I AM a student. Now I have DONATED MONEY to their nursing program and nothing to show for it. Since I am not really a skilled atty or debater, even if I went to the Nursing Dept. I already surmize that they have their minds made up and They just want me gone! But I have had the WORST STRING OF LUCK and NO AMOUNT OF HELP OR SUPPORT FROM ANYONE!!!!!

Forget the STAGE 4 pressure ulcer that I had to finish packing for one of the primary nurses at the hospital because she was sick and about to leave the unit. I was helping her and she began to cough, and I finished packing a stage 4 tunneling pressure ulcer with exposed bone. I packed the wound with some type of silver nitrate soaked sterile cloth and dressed the wound. I WAS SO PROUD OF MYSELF!!!

You know there weren't any instructors watching me THEN don't ya! I am not an incompetent person. I however have had moments of oversight and much complaining.

I can genuinely see how this would translate to me being a whiner or something. but I just really feel that I could have gotten more help and less slaps on the hand when this only my second semester with a clinical. I feel that other students may not have received complaints like I did, but you can sure bet that they weren't doing the same risky procedures or having the other problems I had either. I would never presume to claim that I am a perfect student and never make mistakes, but I do think I performed better than I'm being given CREDIT for. I really feel that I could make changes and perform remediation to improve my deficiencies but I truly believe their minds are cemented into place and I more than likely won't get another chance with this program. I just don't believe that my journey should end this way.

I really do appreciate all y'alls feedback, and I have already ordered some DVDs and BOOKS to read and watch over the summer. but I really am perplexed about what my next step should be. I do feel that my instructors gave me enough rope to hang myself and then just didn't intervene enough to help me do better.

[RedCell]

"But you have to admit there are some evil,mean,crazy and condescending as well as incompetent nursing instructors out there"

Sure, but you also have some mean crazy, condescending and incompetent students out there as well (I have never seen an 'evil' student or 'evil' instructor for that matter). Unfortunately, incompetent students who cannot be remediated must be let go. They are a danger to the very peoples' lives they are trying to improve.

[truern]

Laura, you were having trouble with head to toe assessments back in November and posted about these same sort of problems in clinical in February. Did you take any of the advice you received before??

[Laura77598]

Yes I did and greatly improved them, but when I returned and got remediation they were still nt impressed with my improvements. They continued to tell me thaat i have made improvements, but its not enough. I somehow feel that they just seem to want me out of the way so they can focus on their other students.

[lovehospital]

I would never say that I did not make mistakes, However, I was on one unit (the med surge unit) for all of my rotation , and while I was on this unit, I was in the room examining a pt with my back to the door when a Dr. came in to examine the patient. He was very quiet and unassuming. I had my back to the door and was giving a physical assessment on a female patient 38 y.o. I had my scope down the pt's gown listening to her heart and was continuing with my assessment to her back and abdomen. I barely noticed that there was another person in the room. I said something like I'm almost done, and he complained to the charge nurse. That was my first complaint. I went outside a pt's room once with gloves still on. That was another complaint. once when I was beginning to take 2 patients (as our program transitions us) I asked aLOT of questions to my primary nurse, and she stated to my instructor that I seemed unsafe. I had not done anything like give meds without a nurse or w/o checking them. I have had problems with a perfect physical assessment. and that was mentioned a few times. So I paid more attention to that part of my practice. I practiced my assessments and tutored with our instructor (student aide) who helped me fine tune my physical assessment. I also took steps to correct the complaints leveled against me. I noticed that my instructor did not offer me much in the way of advice or guidance, just disappointment when someone would complain. Now all of the other students were put on other floors from time to time. They were on floor 5S for about 4-5 times then moved to 6E for a while then to OR then to RR and so on. I mostly stayed on 5S. WE were instructed to NOT answer call lights or the phone or anything while on the unit. Then 1/2 way through semester, I was transferred to 2 days at the LTC facility. I went there and my 1st pt was a 700 lb man who could not even sit up by himself. I was to go to get a hydraulic lift to help this pt stand and use the toilet. I volunteered to go look for the lift. When I went to the station (located centrally) NOT A SINGLE NURSE WAS AT THE STATION!!! NOT EVEN A TECH OR A SECRETARY NO ONE!!!!!I went to the other floors (same level just diff hallways) and found a nurse who was w/a pt but she said she would help me with the lift in a minute. I went to the Nurses station and sat down to chart for a few minutes and wait for this nurse. Before she returned my instructor came to the station and low and behold I was the only person at the station sitting down, charting!!!!!!!!! HOW DARE I?????? When I had a pt who had to go to the bathroom and my instructor and 2 other students in the room with my pt. I may as well have had a boc of DONUTS and a cup of COFFEE with me! I didn't return to the room because I didn't want to return empty-handed, and the othernnurse in the pt room told me She would be right with me. If I left and she showed up and I was gone, I thought that would be non-productive and just cause more problems. When I was a kid, my dad always told me to wait. not to go off by myself and do it myself. So I sat at the stationand my INSTRUCTOR came out first. She was NONE too happy with the fact that I was charting. I had a chance to explain this to her, but she was already upset and didn't really care about my explanation. She also said that I didn't answer a call light that morning. that I just went to the door and waited for her to get there. At the hospital, We weren't even supposed to do that! How did I know the rules changed all of a sudden. Then she tells me that she wants to see more initiative from me. I show great initiative , but I never seem to do what they want me to do when they want me to do it. The letter I got makes me sound like I go around with rusty needles dosing patients in the middle of shift or something. I will agree I could have made better decisions and such, but so far, nothing really UNSAFE. My health assessment skills I will agree need improvement as I have had trouble finding the right places to listen for things like murmurs and I have had problems hearing wheezes. Also when I performed a Phys. Assessment on a pt who had osteoporosis I neglected to state Kyphosis in her assessment. I mentioned no spinal curvatures. (I was thinking of scoliosis). and she had age spots, and I mentioned that her back seemed pretty clear. (I was thinking no lesions sores or scars or cuts- I didn't realistically think that AGE SPOTS on a 78 y.o. pt was THAT UNUSUAL! I got in trouble for that also. I just really don't think my clinical performance amounts to unsafe practice since I AM a student. Now I have DONATED MONEY to their nursing program and nothing to show for it. Since I am not really a skilled atty or debater, even if I went to the Nursing Dept. I already surmize that they have their minds made up and They just want me gone! But I have had the WORST STRING OF LUCK and NO AMOUNT OF HELP OR SUPPORT FROM ANYONE!!!!!

Forget the STAGE 4 pressure ulcer that I had to finish packing for one of the primary nurses at the hospital because she was sick and about to leave the unit. I was helping her and she began to cough, and I finished packing a stage 4 tunneling pressure ulcer with exposed bone. I packed the wound with some type of silver nitrate soaked sterile cloth and dressed the wound. I WAS SO PROUD OF MYSELF!!!

You know there weren't any instructors watching me THEN don't ya! I am not an incompetent person. I however have had moments of oversight and much complaining.

I can genuinely see how this would translate to me being a whiner or something. but I just really feel that I could have gotten more help and less slaps on the hand when this only my second semester with a clinical. I feel that other students may not have received complaints like I did, but you can sure bet that they weren't doing the same risky procedures or having the other problems I had either. I would never presume to claim that I am a perfect student and never make mistakes, but I do think I performed better than I'm being given CREDIT for. I really feel that I could make changes and perform remediation to improve my deficiencies but I truly believe their minds are cemented into place and I more than likely won't get another chance with this program. I just don't believe that my journey should end this way.

I really do appreciate all y'alls feedback, and I have already ordered some DVDs and BOOKS to read and watch over the summer. but I really am perplexed about what my next step should be. I do feel that my instructors gave me enough rope to hang myself and then just didn't intervene enough to help me do better.

Ok let me make few comments regarding your mistakes...

The incident with the doctor is a total I mean a total absurd...I cant seem to understand why on earth he made that complain,what a whacko...so the highest majestity could wait one minute....oh please,I bet he wouldnt made that complain if it was a regular RN...

Next you had to take care of 700lb obese man all by yourself ,this is insane...and unsafe,you NEED two people to do the Hoyler lift (spelling?) Sorry but your instructor sound high....

The physical assesment,you should see the performance of some of the students in my class,some cant tell between a crackle and bowel sounds..

[truern]

Ok let me make few comments regarding your mistakes...

The incident with the doctor is a total I mean a total absurd...I cant seem to understand why on earth he made that complain,what a whacko...so the highest majestity could wait one minute....oh please,I bet he wouldnt made that complain if it was a regular RN...

Next you had to take care of 700lb obese man all by yourself ,this is insane...and unsafe,you NEED two people to do the Hoyler lift (spelling?) Sorry but your instructor sound high....

The physical assesment,you should see the performance of some of the students in my class,some cant tell between a crackle and bowel sounds..

1. The incident with the doctor showed a lack of respect for someone on a very tight schedule. I, as a "regular RN", would have stepped aside and let him assess his patient. Doctors often have very little time to spend with their hospitalized patients as it is...he certainly shouldn't have to wait for a student to finish her assessment.

2. She wasn't going to take care of him by herself. Honestly, how long would it take for her to inform the instructor that the nurse was coming to help with a lift instead of leaving the instructor and two other students in limbo?

3. So just because "some" students in your class aren't proficient at assessment skills that makes it OKAY?!? You have a propensity to excuse students just because "they're students"...I'm sorry, but all that stands between a nursing student and an RN is NCLEX. If students can't make the mark as students why on earth do you think they'll suddenly make it after NCLEX?? Either you have "it" or you don't.

OP, I'm sorry you're having trouble with nursing school, but this isn't a recent development. I honestly don't know what to tell you....