discipline of nurses vs. other health care professionals

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Aug 12, 2011

I don't know about other professions.....but as nurses we have access to many types of drugs not only narcotics. The most important thing we are responsible for is our patients lives........we should be held to a higher standard.

canesdukegirl, BSN, RN · Aug 12, 2011

You pose a very good question.

I think the reason why nurses are held to such a high standard is largely because we ARE entrusted with people's lives in the most literal sense, just as Esme expressed.

If you search the American National Gallup Polls, you will find that nurses rank first in "Honesty and Ethics of Professions", and have held this rank for many consecutive years. Upon reading the articles related to this poll, you will see that since nurses are staunch advocates for patients during vulnerable times in their lives, take time to listen to their patients and truly want to improve the health of their patient; the result is a trusting bond.

On a purely emotional level, people want to be cared for in times of crisis. The public trusts that nurses CARE, and will help them adjust to/heal from/return to baseline by practicing safe, intelligent and effective care.

The public has the expectation that nurses should not only be trusted while on the clock, but also that we hold ourselves to a high moral standard outside of work. Now I'm not saying that the public thinks that we should always wear our hair up, only wear long pants and turtlenecks in an oh-so-lovely shade of oatmeal and never have fun. I do believe that the public expects us to have a strong moral compass, and by and large, I have observed that to be true.

nightengalegoddess · Aug 12, 2011

Yep, we are held to the highest standard. In national polls, nurses show up as higher than peace officers (aka, Police) as the most trusted by the general public. They even trust us more than physicians! Although I DO see your point. Nurses are people too.

Just watch Nurse Jackie...sort of a joke here, but hey, despite her evil ways.......she is a darn amazing nurse. I would want her to be my nurse whether she was high on narcs or not. She has a justice that in spirit, I believe, would make sure MY needs were addresed.......and if she were diverting someones meds, I bet it would be the person who was faking chest pain to get some dilaudid when their dealer was MIA. Not advocating substance abuse, just saying, some folks can do the right thing despite their personal problems.

But alcohol and particularly, driving under the influence: these are more dangerous than any marijuana, narcotic, or possibly unfounded criminal case against a nurse. A nurse ought to have the thought in mind that whatever her actions, addictions, or variances from "average" behaviors will not compromise the welfare of the general public at any time. I do believe that an RN who endangers the lives of her society by drinking and driving, ought to be monitored closely.......yes, given every chance at retribution........but being in public, behind the wheel while intoxicated is a questionable moral tendancy. I think that the moral "tendancies" are the reason for this harshness you speak of.

It is ONE thing to party in the safe haven of friends and home, knowing that you have days off coming after. It is one thing to use marijuana for medicinal purposes: but knowing that the side effects may deter you from being on top of your game at work if you were to be actively "high" while on the job. These instances ought to limit a "reasonable" nurse's judgements about when to use. Self awareness and self honesty is KEY.

I have seen that the nursing board becomes involved when an RN has broken integrity. Perhaps going over the line of what is personal into what becomes public. Like diverting meds or going from what doses of anything may be necessary to function highly into what doses may create a "high" while at work or in public.

I have also seen RNs who have admitted substance abuse to their managers while in NA or AA and found their next 5 years to be monitored as if they were a child again with the nursing board as their parent....a parent who also charges lots of money for the responsibilities of monitoring. And those nurses were dang good nurses whom never showed an iota of doubt in regards to their work performance. But, they were the ones who exposed themselves. Maybe they needed a parent to help them solve their internal stuggle.

Luckily, even though I was a roudy, loud, offensive youth; I never had any arrest. Is it true, that if one were charged for a crime that the nursing board would reject them even if the accusation turned out to be dismissed? I DO want to hear what that is all about.

I have found the nursing board to be quite correct in their decisions.......a patient filed a complaint about me once.......a patient who made their living suing hospitals. And the nursing board saw right through this patient's accusations. And I thank my nursing board for that.

Perhaps I am naive. That may be VERY true. I can't wait to hear others' comments.

This is a really great topic. Thank you. I have been watching a lot of Nurse Jackie lately, and do wonder about these sort of issues. I guess I think even an RN has the right to recreate in any fashion however "immoral", as long as the public is not affected by these actions in any way. Morality is very subjective. But trustworthiness is absolute.

nightengalegoddess · Aug 12, 2011

PS, I can not find an area here to KUDO posters! So, Kudos all so far!

canesdukegirl, BSN, RN · Aug 12, 2011

PS, I can not find an area here to KUDO posters! So, Kudos all so far!

It's at the bottom of the post, right beside the Quote button. Do you see it?

avionics · Aug 12, 2011

You have to be logged into your account for the Kudos button to show up.

nightengalegoddess · Aug 12, 2011

I can't see it on Canesdukegirl! Wierd. I love giving kudos! But we digress! Up for many hours after night shift. Looking forward to the masses of comments after I awake this afternoon.....blessings!!!!!!!!!

ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN · Aug 12, 2011

I am one of the nurses who received a harsh punishment. I got into trouble, the last time almost 11 years ago for purchasing stolen property. I participated in a pre-trial diversion program which means after I completed the court order, my charges were technically dropped. So, I have no criminal convictions. It is not the same as a diversion program where a criminal conviction is entered and after completing terms of the sentence the conviction was expunged. That’s a completely different kind of program. My cases never got to that point. That was also during a time when I was abusing drugs. In good faith, I disclosed my past. Now, let me be clear about something here. Indiana recently began requiring federal background checks, effective July 1, 2011. My application was submitted prior to this date. So, I was not required to submit to a federal background check. Knowing that absolutely nothing would come back on me, I still chose to disclose the information.

I got three years of probation with restrictions; no peds, homehealth, or hospice. I was also turned into the national practitioner’s database and the abuse registry. I have petitioned the board to review the decision. I have to be in front of the board next Thursday. My attorney feels confident I will have a license free and clear along with my information being removed from the registries. I showed proof of no convictions, reference letters, and recently submitted drug screen and they still were incredibly harsh. I was not in front of the full board. They split applicants from nurses who had administrative hearings. So, the decision came from two board members. One obviously through her actions had a bone to pick with me.

So, should the board hold people to higher standards? Of course they should. They have been appointed to their position to ensure those entering the healthcare field are competent clinicians. However, I think there should be a set standard across the United States. I don’t like the idea of the board making decisions on a case-by-case basis. That opens doors for potential discrimination and the inability of the board being consistent. The responses applicants gave while in front of the board for positive responses are public record. If you sift through them, there is no rhyme or reason with the decisions. There is one person who was arrested and convicted of felony arson and insurance fraud that occurred six years ago. He was issued a license free and clear.

One last note and I will stop beating a dead horse here. Some of my posts have generated some private messages about how I made my bed and I should sleep in it. I have done nothing more than accept full responsibility of my actions.

MrChicagoRN, RN · Aug 12, 2011

I just got done reading a ton of threads where nurses have been disciplined very harshly by the board. Countless threads go on to tell a story of a nurses life turned upside down due to a past substance abuse problem or because of having a criminal history.

I agree that some of the situations posted here have listed some Draconian responses.

People make mistakes, or hang with the wrong people, or are in the wrong place at the wrong time & find themselves caught up in something unexpected.

Is the event over and done with? Is it relevant to today, or likely to reoccur? Does it indicate a depraved person, or one that just made a mistake?

As nurses, we help turn lives around. As nurses we need to remember we are as they are.

No Stars In My Eyes · Aug 13, 2011

I agree that some of the situations posted here have listed some Draconian responses.
People make mistakes, or hang with the wrong people, or are in the wrong place at the wrong time & find themselves caught up in something unexpected.
Is the event over and done with? Is it relevant to today, or likely to reoccur? Does it indicate a depraved person, or one that just made a mistake?
As nurses, we help turn lives around. As nurses we need to remember we are as they are.

Oh, AMEN, MrC!!!!! :yeah:

usalsfyre · Aug 13, 2011

I hate to break it to y'all, but nursing is actually fairly lenient in its disciplinary proceedings. My, as well as my wife's, field of allied health would face immediate delicensensure in many cases described above.