When people talk about needing disability because their knee/back/hip hurts when they stand do they not know there are jobs that don't require much standing besides going to the bathroom?
When some say they need it for anxiety yet are able to go party on the weekends? (Don't get me wrong I have anxiety myself but I have also worked since I was 16).
Do some people feel entitled? Not think? Think they don't need to help themselves and lose weight to ease the stress on their joints?
Again kind of a rant but also a little curious if there's a side I'm not seeing.
And I grew up poor with food stamps and hand me downs from friends of the family and Medicaid. I know what it means to need help.
Then you have to try to get disability which is a long process to get approved, many don't on the first try and need a lawyer to succeed. What do you do for money in the meantime? Even if you get disability it is very little to live on, I sure wouldn't want to find myself in that situation!
There is a way around this. A lot of employers offer disability insurance. Yes, it's something else coming out of your paycheck (if your employer doesn't cover it), but it would probably be enough to live off of for most people. My short term disability insurance kicks in after I've been out of work for 30 days and covers me for 90 days, then my long term disability insurance kicks in after 90 days and goes on forever, pretty much. Both would give me 60% of my salary, and with both, I only have to go without income for 30 days.
And that's because I chose that option. There is a short term disability option that kicks in after 15 days, but I think I would be okay for 30 days so I chose the lower cost option.
I don't know what the burden of proof is, but either way, it's a heck of a lot faster to get than going through the government to try to qualify for disability.
I personally would not go to work without disability insurance since I have a mortgage and a car payment and I know what a high risk field I work in, but to each his own.
Many of the findings in the NPR article are consistent with what I see in my clinics. Especially for people with minimal education, or the plant closes and they need retraining, or they have a job-related injury, disability is the new welfare. I rarely see professional, managerial, technical or healthcare people putting in for Federal disability.
But disability has also become a de facto welfare program for people without a lot of education or job skills. But it wasn't supposed to serve this purpose; it's not a retraining program designed to get people back onto their feet. Once people go onto disability, they almost never go back to work. Fewer than 1 percent of those who were on the federal program for disabled workers at the beginning of 2011 have returned to the workforce since then, one economist told me.
People who leave the workforce and go on disability qualify for Medicare, the government health care program that also covers the elderly. They also get disability payments from the government of about $13,000 a year. This isn't great. But if your alternative is a minimum wage job that will pay you at most $15,000 a year, and probably does not include health insurance, disability may be a better option.
Disability is not meant to be a retraining program, it is meant for those who can't work anymore who have paid into social security. It is a benefit we pay for! There are probably more people who could go on disability and take early retirement which involves a permanent social security cut of up to 30% instead because of how time consuming and difficult it can be to get disability. Many people need a lawyer and have to file more than once and what do you live on in the meantime? Medicare doesn't start for the first two years and you have no health insurance if you don't qualify for medicaid. Many states will take your home when you die if you go on medicaid and most nurses make too much money to qualify for medicaid anyway!
We pay into social security for our entire working life. We work a job with one of the highest incidents of back/spine injury in the working world. We then end up with a choice when we have the back/knees of a 80y/o at 60- apply for disability or cripple ourselves trying to get a few more mos out of a body that is worn out. After 30 years in the floor doing pt care- I don't think I can learn to do QI or Case Management or some other accomodating position. Most of the time just sitting at a desk fopr 4 hours is enough to send me ODing on Motrin and Benadryl and heading for bed. You are 23y/o with no work history and a proclivity for clubbing on the weekends till you black out because you self medicate with alcohol and pot to treat your social anxiety disorder...Blech! 60 y/o nurse that has to have the NA tie her shoes because she can't get down that far- yep, you deserve a break today- and for the rest of your life.
Thank you! Sad to say one of my coworker's back is so wrecked she cannot bend down to tie her shoe so uses slip ons and has her family help put her socks on. That is just so sad! Not to mention all the money she has spent out of her pocket for a work related issue on massages, laying on ice packs, chiropractor, and even epidurals! She literally has trouble walking, but can't afford to retire and keeps dragging herself to work hoping to make it to 66!
Speaking as someone who is the child and sister of people that were/are on disability, I'm amazed that anyone could game the system. My dad had three major back surgeries and was still questioned as to the veracity of his claim. It took forever for him to be approved. Trust me when I tell you, no one worked harder or hated being home more than my dad.
Folks would judge him when they would see him pitching balls to my brother and his teammates when the coach ran late, or when they would see our Disney vacation photos. What they didn't see was the two days he spent in bed after an hour of pitching balls to 8 year olds, or the wheelchair he had to use to get around the park. My parents scrimped and saved for years to afford that vacation and he wasn't going to sit in the room while we went out.
My sister was always a go-getter. She was working at the bingo hall waiting tables for school clothes at 14, she always worked and hates being stuck in the house. However, since her MS diagnosis and the four back surgeries she has had she can no longer work outside the home. She would give *anything* to be working again, but due to the cognitive and vision deficits caused by the MS she simply isn't able to. Like my dad, some days she is good, so she will overdo it and end up in bed recovering. No one sees those recovery days, so they question whether her diagnosis is actually MS. I guess when she is finally wheelchair bound they will.
I wonder whether these people you're encountering have hidden disabilities as well, as it took YEARS of fighting for my dad and sister to be approved to collect disability payments. They were both denied multiple times. Let me reiterate that. My sister, with her Multiple Sclerosis diagnosis was denied multiple times and it cost her a fair amount out of pocket in attorney fees and court costs. Both dad and my sister worked for years making very good salaries and therefore, paying their fair share of taxes. They didn't apply out of a sense of entitlement, they *are* entitled to collect that payment. Don't judge what you don't know....
I love watching Judge Judy (about once every 3 months) when she'll ask a person "and what's the nature of your disability?" About half the time she looks are her baliff and says "you can get disability for that?". A couple that I remember were dyslexia and a traumatic toe amputation. I remember one Mom who was fighting like hell to get all of her kids on disability along with herself (the kids had learning disabilities she said). All I could think was if she fought half as hard building them up and getting them a different kind of help, disability might not have to happen
I was once in place which tried to accomodate quite a few of VERY long-term floor nurses who just could not do it all any more, many (if not all if them) due to accumulated health care issues and inability to develop new skills right away to care for more acure patients, to "bedside quality control" and charge them with one "problem" per person. I think the hope was to make some of them, with time, into QA, but for a time being it was utter disaster. Every single one of them had to "visit" every unit in place at least every other day and watch as a hawk for a single aspect of care which they now perceived as their strictly private property. Hysterics because of asymptomatic "significant event" of CBG of 69, calls to docs in the middle of the night because patient already on heparin AND argatroban did not received ASA, and to get b-blocker "as per policy" for a guy with complete heart block made life a nightmare for everyone.
I think it is important for every nurse to have an opportunity to try the hand on different areas whenever possible. Where I work now, nurses are encouraged to try case management, ID control and other things as they like and needs arose, and those who have to move out of bedside for whatever reason at least can get an idea of what they want and can to do next.
An experienced nurse who calls the MD at 0200 for a beta blocker for someone in heart block should be fired for incompetence.
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
My father was in a coma state post SAH/ruptured aneurysm and I had to spend three months proving that no he could not return to work as a full time business owner and CPA.
So someone who is able to scam the system claiming disability yet they can magically do gardening, mow the lawn, push a chair with a 60lb child and carry the same child quite a distance unassisted will get the side eye. Then makes it known she won't yet marry their live in boyfriend because his income will reduce the SSI payments.
I take no issue with disability for someone who is actually disabled. But the scummy lawyers, doctors, chiropractors and individuals that band together to create a disability claim for someone who doesn't truly qualify but split the profits of the payout if SSA can't disprove their claims...well there is a special karmic place for them.
The article makes sense but it also aggravates me. I made good grades in school, got scholarships for my BSN, have lived within my means, paid for my MSN to get where I am now. I have a 1000 square foot house on 1/3 of an acre. I still have cheap furniture and buy from thrift stores. I don't smoke, don't drink, don't do drugs, haven't made irresponsible decisions leading to kids or arrests.
It's a matter of personal responsibility to me. I don't want kids to suffer but at the same time I think it's much more responsible to take advantage of FREE birth control/condoms from a local health dept than to have several kids with different dads or different moms.
Again I'm partly venting but it is extremely aggravating. Diabetes is not a disability. A bad knee is not a disability. I had a BL AKA patient who had his family put a seat belt on his lawn mower so he could still take care of his yard. These other people can do something. (QUOTE)
Most people on disability are not young with kids, rather older workers who after being injured, sick or laid off aren't able to find another job and apply for disability to get by. It's true the states are pushing people onto disability rather than paying for them.
Welfare doesn't exist anymore, it is time limited, many states you must work or attend a tech college to get aid, the only thing not time limited is food stamps and social security disability.
Again the majority of people on disability are older with health problems and even if they were of good health, there is a lot of age discrimination where older workers are routinely laid off in many fields and have a very difficult time finding another job!
Don't be so self-righteous just because you are doing everything right and sensibly doesn't mean tragedy couldn't strike you or for that matter anyone of us at any time! We are all just an accident or an illness away from being unable to work, laid off or on disability! No one knows the future! Let's not be so judgemental, but instead prepare for the future by saving money now while we can. I think a Roth IRA is the best choice because it's accessible in an emergency without penalty or tax! If you can afford the out of pockets of a high deductible it is worth it to consider a high deductible insurance paired with an HSA that you max out every year, let it roll over and then you will have money for medical expenses in the future. The downside is you have to pay for prescriptions till you reach the deductible, but you can always find $4 prescriptions at Walmart and Costco has the lowest markup on meds of any store!
Specializes in Cardiac, Home Health, Primary Care.
My father was in a coma state post SAH/ruptured aneurysm and I had to spend three months proving that no he could not return to work as a full time business owner and CPA.
So someone who is able to scam the system claiming disability yet they can magically do gardening, mow the lawn, push a chair with a 60lb child and carry the same child quite a distance unassisted will get the side eye. Then makes it known she won't yet marry their live in boyfriend because his income will reduce the SSI payments.
I take no issue with disability for someone who is actually disabled. But the scummy lawyers, doctors, chiropractors and individuals that band together to create a disability claim for someone who doesn't truly qualify but split the profits of the payout if SSA can't disprove their claims...well there is a special karmic place for them.
I had an experience with short term disability I found interesting. I had surgery a few years ago and was on crutches temporarily. My workplace would not let me come back to work while I was on crutches, (instead they opted to pay me short term disability until I was fully off of crutches) even though there was plenty of desk work I could do for them. I guess they were afraid of the liability of me falling or someone else falling on my crutches?
I think some people in this thread need a little education about disability. You guys have no idea how hard it is to get disability. Yes, tons of people apply for it, but very few get it and it is a very long process. It took me almost 3 years to get it. I have epilepsy and several other conditions. I spent most of my time 2009-2011 in various hospitals trying to get my seizures under control. I tried to work. I was first diagnosed with epilepsy in 2001. I worked until 2005. I was pregnant with my son and had a couple of seizures. I worked in retail management for a long time. That is back-breaking, stressful work. I worked very long hours and had to climb 17 ft ladders even while I was pregnant.
My plan was to go back to work when my son went to kindergarten. When my son was 3, my health declined rapidly. Some triggers for my seizures are stress, lack of sleep, and extreme heat. There were a few times I almost died. I had to be rescusitated at one point. When it became clear I could not go back to work, I filed for disability. I was denied twice. The third time you have to go and have a hearing with a judge. At this point, I retained a representative (not a lawyer) who actually used to work for Social Security.
When I finally had my hearing, the judge asked me lots of questions. You have to be off work about a year or more for them to even really hear your case. If you had worked in the past year, the judge would say you are able to work. I was considered for 6 jobs. They were based on my education and my work history. Then an occupational expert comes in and the judge asks if you are able to work any of the jobs she was looking at for me. He sat there and said I was not able to go back to any of these jobs. I did have a couple of desk jobs. At the time, as much standing on my feet for 15 hours hurt, sitting too long was hard of me too. My various doctors had to sign off that they thought I should have disability. They were my family doctor, my neurologist, and my rheumatologist. All three had to be in agreement. The judge asked if he thought I could do any jobs. He said yes and named like 3 obscure jobs I had no idea even existed.
Then the judge asks me some more questions and the hearing concluded. Mine took about an hour. You then get the chance to do a rebuttal. My representative wrote it for me. I honestly did not think the judge was going to give it to me. She was very harsh with me. I understand though they have to be because there are scammers out there. I saw other people who had shady lawyers down there for their hearings. I could hear these lawyers and clients talking in the waiting room and talking about what their next step would be. Many were turned down on the spot.
I had to wait for several months for her to write my decision. My hearing was in July and I did not hear back until mid-September. I received my decision and it was for partial disability. I was to be reviewed in 18 months as she felt I could eventually get better. I was also in a horrible marriage that was extremely stressful and I truly think that added to everything. My depression from my marriage affected my immune system and made me more prone to seizures. When my 18 mos was up, I was reviewed. They pulled all of my medical records and went over them. Again, my doctors had to recertify me. I had to answer numerous questions. I answered everything truthfully and I was approved again for a certain period of time.
I have used this time on disability to get myself well and get my life back in order. I ended up in one of the best epilepsy clinics in the nation. My doctor specializes in epilepsy and she is ranked one of the best. She admitted me for a video eeg, and on the third day, she saw my seizures and new what kind of meds to get me on. I have been seizure free for a long time. I worked on getting a daily routine in place so I could sleep better at night. I started exercising. I divorced my husband. I started school to see if I could handle it which I have been able to do. My energy is back. I see a pain management doctor who is awesome and my pain levels are tolerable. I have my life back which I could not have even thought of 6 years ago. I have worked my butt off to get where I am right now. I graduate next May. I can now tolerate 12 hours shifts as I have learned in clinical. My family doctor says I have made the most amazing turnaround he has ever seen. He honestly did not think I would be alive right now, much less in nursing school. He thinks I'm going to be a great nurse seeing as how much I have been on the patient side. I'm even starting to wean off of my epilepsy meds. No more sleepiness. I would fall asleep at my desk in my office jobs because epilepsy meds make me so sleepy.
I am going see how this works with me going back to work. The nice thing is, I won't be penalized on my disability, when I first start. If it turns out I can only handle part time and keep my health in tip top shape, so be it. I do want to get back to full time, but it's what my body will allow me to handle.
And yes, I have Medicare. So what? Am I supposed to think that nurses sit there and think I am getting judged when they see I'm on Medicare? I hope not. And if I so choose, I can keep my Medicare for 93 months after my disability ends. The Medicare helps me out huge because I had crappy insurance years ago. My husband was self-employed and we had to get what we could at the time. My deductible was huge and it hardly paid anything especially on prescriptions. With epilepsy, most doctors want you to take name brand. So my medications were terribly expensive. One year I had to pay about $30k out of pocket on medical expenses. $30k!!! Medicare has helped me to get the treatment and medications I need.
Yes, some people try to scam the system. But it's like that on everything. Everything. To say disability is the new welfare is ludicrous.
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
I know what I had to go through to get my near comatose father approved. Thank goodness I didn't let my mom do the filing as she misinterpreted most of the questions and answering based on pre-illness not current reality. The SSA rep was impressed with my preparedness. I went in with my birth certificate, my parents joint account (apparently children try to get themselves guardian benefactor and have funds deposited in their account. My mom could handle the funds but not the application) and every piece of medical and social evidence I could possibly perceive of them needing combined with physician letters, hospital records, labs, scans, and a print out of the online application. The independent medical reviewer assigned at the 3 and 6 month point (he could qualify at the 6 month mark) was astounded that he was required to even review my father's case. I think our calls lasted a minute or so.
There are certain conditions, when independently medically verified, automatically qualify like ALS and black lung disease and certain stage 4 cancers depending on the sites of metastasis. I wouldn't wish any of those diagnoses on anyone.
I think most confusing is the vigor and effort some put through to scam the system. There are entire websites on how to get declared totally disabled by uncomplicated fibromyalgia (a diagnosis of exclusion) seriously I have better things to do with my life than scam the universe.
calivianya, BSN, RN
2,418 Posts
There is a way around this. A lot of employers offer disability insurance. Yes, it's something else coming out of your paycheck (if your employer doesn't cover it), but it would probably be enough to live off of for most people. My short term disability insurance kicks in after I've been out of work for 30 days and covers me for 90 days, then my long term disability insurance kicks in after 90 days and goes on forever, pretty much. Both would give me 60% of my salary, and with both, I only have to go without income for 30 days.
And that's because I chose that option. There is a short term disability option that kicks in after 15 days, but I think I would be okay for 30 days so I chose the lower cost option.
I don't know what the burden of proof is, but either way, it's a heck of a lot faster to get than going through the government to try to qualify for disability.
I personally would not go to work without disability insurance since I have a mortgage and a car payment and I know what a high risk field I work in, but to each his own.