When people talk about needing disability because their knee/back/hip hurts when they stand do they not know there are jobs that don't require much standing besides going to the bathroom?
When some say they need it for anxiety yet are able to go party on the weekends? (Don't get me wrong I have anxiety myself but I have also worked since I was 16).
Do some people feel entitled? Not think? Think they don't need to help themselves and lose weight to ease the stress on their joints?
Again kind of a rant but also a little curious if there's a side I'm not seeing.
And I grew up poor with food stamps and hand me downs from friends of the family and Medicaid. I know what it means to need help.
There is a way around this. A lot of employers offer disability insurance. Yes, it's something else coming out of your paycheck (if your employer doesn't cover it), but it would probably be enough to live off of for most people. My short term disability insurance kicks in after I've been out of work for 30 days and covers me for 90 days, then my long term disability insurance kicks in after 90 days and goes on forever, pretty much. Both would give me 60% of my salary, and with both, I only have to go without income for 30 days.
And that's because I chose that option. There is a short term disability option that kicks in after 15 days, but I think I would be okay for 30 days so I chose the lower cost option.
I don't know what the burden of proof is, but either way, it's a heck of a lot faster to get than going through the government to try to qualify for disability.
I personally would not go to work without disability insurance since I have a mortgage and a car payment and I know what a high risk field I work in, but to each his own.
I had both short and long term disability insurance policies when I initially went on what I anticipated to be an 8 week medical leave to have a spinal cord stimulator implanted in March 2007. (I had previously applied for intermittent FMLA when I was initially diagnosed with RSD/CRPS.) Long story short due to some cardiac issues my surgery was delayed. Trial stimulator was the end of Aug, permanent implant begining of Sept. 2007. During that time my FMLA ran out. I continued to contact employee health and my manager every week as required. No one bothered to tell me that HR had terminated me. I only found out when my surgeons office tried to verify benefits and they said I was no longer covered. I was able to apply for COBRA and we proceeded with surgery. I received both my STD & LTD benefits during that time but I was out a job.
The spinal cord stimulator was a success and when my surgeon released me I was able to then reapply to my old unit. I was rehired. (By the way, the reason I went back is because there was only one major hospital where we lived.) I worked for 4 months before my SCS failed and my RSD progressed to a point where working was no longer an option. Because I had only been back at work for four months I no longer qualified for benefits from my STD & LTD policies. We fought it, filed appeals, consulted attorneys--to no avail. I was just screwed. There is something wrong with a system that actually penalizes you for trying to return to work.
I was fortunate that unlike the majority of people I did not have to fight long & hard to qualify for SSDI. I was approved the first time I applied. I was able to carry COBRA (I carried all our family on my insurance) for 18 months and then we qualified for our states Risk Pool insurance coverage. Both were outrageously expensive but it was the only option available other than going without insurance.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I can see where that would be a sore topic on a unit. I am in an outpatient clinic so wonder more about the general public than nurses.
I know we can't do much about some of our aches and pains until we get some good ratios. Even then though....
Many of the general public go out of their way looking for a way to collect disability so they can sit on their butts at home collecting a "paycheck" while others of us go to work. I've seen my cousins do it. I've seen strangers brag about it. And when I had my knees (both of them) replaced, I saw patients both in the orthopedist's office and the PT clinic attempting to scam themselves a disability diagnosis. How do I KNOW they were scamming? The patient who was in so much pain she leaned on her walker in the doctor's office was somehow able to sprint for a bus, nearly crashing into me while I was hobbling my way out of the door. The one who was arguing loudly with the PA about how she was in so much pain she couldn't work and needed more of that "pain stuff that starts with a D" looked pretty lively when she was out in the parking lot fighting with her man about why she wasn't able to score the script. Physically fighting, not verbally. And the woman who was "working out" next to me in the PT clinic spent most of her time in the clinic moaning about how much pain she was in, how she couldn't do the exercises and the therapist needed to write to her doctor and tell him it was all too difficult for her. My husband says she lives just down the street from us and had no trouble shoveling snow that same day (while her teenaged son built a snowman.)
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
We pay into social security for our entire working life. We work a job with one of the highest incidents of back/spine injury in the working world. We then end up with a choice when we have the back/knees of a 80y/o at 60- apply for disability or cripple ourselves trying to get a few more mos out of a body that is worn out. After 30 years in the floor doing pt care- I don't think I can learn to do QI or Case Management or some other accomodating position. Most of the time just sitting at a desk fopr 4 hours is enough to send me ODing on Motrin and Benadryl and heading for bed. You are 23y/o with no work history and a proclivity for clubbing on the weekends till you black out because you self medicate with alcohol and pot to treat your social anxiety disorder...Blech! 60 y/o nurse that has to have the NA tie her shoes because she can't get down that far- yep, you deserve a break today- and for the rest of your life.
You know what -- if I couldn't do the bedside, I'm make damned sure I LEARNED how to do QI, Case management or some other non-bedside position.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
The tone of this thread concerns me. I am currently on disability and have been since March 2008. I fought going on disability for about 18 months because I didn't want to give up my nursing career. It was a heart wrenching decision to have to make and I have struggled with it almost everyday since. My goal since that day has been--and continues to be--to return to my nursing career. Unfortunately, my body doesn't seem to want to get on board with my plan. It has nothing to do with me "not being able to hack life" and if all it took was "willpower" I would have returned to work long ago. Actually, I would have never left.
I was diagnosed with RSD/CRPS of the neck, right arm & shoulder in Nov. 2006. By the time I went on disability it had spread to my left arm & shoulder, my chest wall, my upper & mid back and was affecting my heart (tachycardia & SVT), stomach (gastroparesis) and causing bone marrow depression.
I have sought almost every treatment available (often at my own expense) to get this disease under control and return to work. About 20 months ago I started ketamine infusions--4 days in a row every 4-6 weeks. They have helped tremendously and through intense physical therapy I have regained the use of my arms. I was looking forward to taking a nursing refresher course/clinical this fall. My RN license has been on inactive status since 2010 and this course/clinical is one of the requirements to reinstate it.
Unfortunately, RSD/CRPS can also causes bone thinning and in May I suffered a spontaneous tibial plateau fracture. Recovery is long & difficult but was going well until suddenly it wasn't. Two weeks ago I suffered a re-fracture due to non-union. Surgery was 9/17. Twelve more weeks non-weight bearing followed by 3-6 months of physical therapy before I will be able to walk again. Looks like that refresher course will have to wait until at least next fall.
My point is that I believe most people on disability are just like me. Call me niave or whatever--but why would anyone chose this? I do not enjoy staying home every day. Sure a staycation is nice for a week, maybe two, but every day--not so much. Add to that the physical limitations of a disability--not being able to do simple things on your own like wash your hair, fix a meal, go grocery shopping. Sound like fun yet? No? Then add to that society's view on the disabled--we're either invisible or a drain on "their" tax dollars. Forget the fact that I also paid those taxes from age 16-40. And while we're discussing finances, I also enjoy receiving less than 1/4 of the income that I received when I was working as a RN. I fail to see why anyone would chose this.
I'm sorry. I know I'm ranting and I am overly sensitive about this topic but I really hurts to see a group of people to whom I have the unfortunate luck to be a part of so easily dismissed. Dranger, I'm not trying to call you out but saying you don't even bother to ask people about their work history any more because so many of your patient population are on SSDI/SSI... really?
I am very sorry for your problems, and I don't think this thread is about you. But I think you're wrong. Many people on disability are simply scamming the system. I see them at work, I see them in my orthopedists office, at the PT clinic and even in my family. I won't say MOST are scammers, but a goodly percentage of them seem to be.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
This thread has a really Judgy McJudgerson tone.
Everybody I've known who has been on disability earned it. They worked for 20-40 years and hurt themselves physically and mentally for the job. In all the cases I know personally, the people had to FIGHT to get disability, for years.
And it was by no means worth it. They still had to have help from friends and family for anything more than the basics of life.
Maybe y'all have seen only the bad apples in your environment.
I suspect it may be regional. If I recall, you're in Canada. I think we get a lot more bad apples where I am. Many of the "disabled" folks I know don't require ANY help strolling through the mall, with ADLs or even, it seems, with rock climbing.
Specializes in Cardiac, Home Health, Primary Care.
Many of the general public go out of their way looking for a way to collect disability so they can sit on their butts at home collecting a "paycheck" while others of us go to work. I've seen my cousins do it. I've seen strangers brag about it. And when I had my knees (both of them) replaced, I saw patients both in the orthopedist's office and the PT clinic attempting to scam themselves a disability diagnosis. How do I KNOW they were scamming? The patient who was in so much pain she leaned on her walker in the doctor's office was somehow able to sprint for a bus, nearly crashing into me while I was hobbling my way out of the door. The one who was arguing loudly with the PA about how she was in so much pain she couldn't work and needed more of that "pain stuff that starts with a D" looked pretty lively when she was out in the parking lot fighting with her man about why she wasn't able to score the script. Physically fighting, not verbally. And the woman who was "working out" next to me in the PT clinic spent most of her time in the clinic moaning about how much pain she was in, how she couldn't do the exercises and the therapist needed to write to her doctor and tell him it was all too difficult for her. My husband says she lives just down the street from us and had no trouble shoveling snow that same day (while her teenaged son built a snowman.)
These are the ones that aggravate me. Not the ones who try to do what we ask. But if your back hurts and you won't even try physical therapy that I recommend it's tough for me to sympathize as much when you continue to complain of pain.
What is a disability diagnosis? I've never heard of that. Anyone can try for disability, but it's the doctors who have to say yes you are physically disabled. I was diagnosed with fibro at 15. I did absolutely everything under the sun to try and relieve my pain to no avail. Now, with a combination of meds, getting good sleep, and exercise, I'm at a point where I know it won't get better, but it won't get worse.
But with my epilepsy, not everyone with epilepsy gets disability. So, I'm wondering how that can be a disability diagnosis, if everyone doesn't get it? I have had numerous concussions from them, and one fall gave me a blood clot that broke off and went to my lungs for a PE. I lived for 5 days with that, can you believe it? I've also been hospitalized a couple of times for post-concussive disorder after a seizure. At the time, I thought I would get it because I could not drive. I did not drive for several years and I live in a very rural area. There is no such thing as public transportation when you are surrounded by corn fields. My representative told me that because someone does not drive does not mean anything to SSI.
I know there are shady people out there and there are shady doctors also, but I have a hard time believing for the amount of effort that one has to put in to get disability, that first off, people like that go through the trouble, and that shady person has a shady doctor too. Just like you guys can see through these people, so can the doctors.
A girl I once know has lupus and crohn's disease. She loves to play up her illnesses and get everyone to feel sorry for her and do things for her such as give her money. She works these dead-end jobs that don't pay anything then just expects her family and friends to pay for her stuff. I fell for it in the beginning. I ended up giving her over two thousand dollars. She would always promise to pay me back which never happened. One time I gave her money and the next day her son showed up with a brand new phone. I thought my money was going towards food and utilities. No it went to buy her 12 year old a new phone.
She wanted to get disability. She always talked about it. I tried to explain the process to her and gave her my representative's number. The problem was, she was too dang lazy to fill out the paperwork. She conned her mom into filling it out for her the first time and she got denied, she just didn't want to take the steps needed. I told her the representative would even take care of the paperwork. She was too lazy to pick up the phone and call him. But she would continue to moan and complain that I had it and she didn't and she felt she was sicker than me and so why wouldn't they give it to her? I finally told her the money fairy is not coming to her doorstep and just say hey you deserve all of this money so here you go. I also explained that if she was going to continue to work, they were not going to see her as disabled no matter what she said. She always called off wherever she was working at the time and then would eventually get fired. She is just one of those entitled people who thinks life is not fair if stuff is not handed to her. She would not put the work in to it. It just frustrated me to no end. I did my best to help her, but I think she wanted me to do it for her and I was not willing to do that. That is what I think of when I think about people trying to scam the system. I do truly think she was in pain and did not feel good. That is me every day.
I learned how to adapt though and am making a better life for me and my son. It just wasn't safe for me to work when my seizures were out of control. One day I had one while driving to work. I didn't lose consciousness, but when I walked into work my eyes were all glazed over and I did not know where I was. I had no idea what had happened to me. Then an hour later I had one on the sales floor. I'm so glad I was not up on a ladder that day or I would probably not be here right now. Plus, no one would hire me when I was missing work all the time. I was fortunate that most of the places I worked had unlimited sick days.
I wake up every morning and am thankful for where I am. I truly do. This was a very long journey for me. And there were most certainly times I did think I would ever make it this far. I truly cannot wait to be able to work again. I know that might sound weird, but it's been my goal all along. To be a productive member of society again.
I am very sorry for your problems, and I don't think this thread is about you. But I think you're wrong. Many people on disability are simply scamming the system. I see them at work, I see them in my orthopedists office, at the PT clinic and even in my family. I won't say MOST are scammers, but a goodly percentage of them seem to be.
This really makes me sad! There are several people on AN whose opinion I pay attention to. Ruby, yours is one of them. So when you tell me I'm wrong about something it causes me to stop and think. My husband often tells me that I am an eternal optimist and that I see the world through rose colored glasses. He's right. I tend to be overly trusting of people and believe the majority of people have the best intentions--even though life has shown me several times that isn't the case. I'm generally straight forward and honest (although I will tell a little white lie to spare someone's feelings) and I just expect the same of others. I'm not so completely naive that I don't know that there are bad apples out there or that I think some people don't scam the system, but a goodly amount? Really? Sad! So sad!
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
This really makes me sad! There are several people on AN whose opinion I pay attention to. Ruby, yours is one of them. So when you tell me I'm wrong about something it causes me to stop and think. My husband often tells me that I am an eternal optimist and that I see the world through rose colored glasses. He's right. I tend to be overly trusting of people and believe the majority of people have the best intentions--even though life has shown me several times that isn't the case. I'm generally straight forward and honest (although I will tell a little white lie to spare someone's feelings) and I just expect the same of others. I'm not so completely naive that I don't know that there are bad apples out there or that I think some people don't scam the system, but a goodly amount? Really? Sad! So sad!
I suspect that some of the scamming is regional, but it's hard to know for sure.
My orthopedic surgeon's office has a $25 charge for each form they're requested to fill out. When I brought my FMLA paperwork in to be filled out, I fully expected to pay the $25. The PA's reaction: "You have FMLA paperwork? You have an actual job? We don't see many people with actual jobs in here. You don't have to pay the $25 -- that's for people who are trying to get disability. We don't charge anyone who really needs disability, either. But the fee does cut down on those who are just trying to opt out of working."
There is a way around this. A lot of employers offer disability insurance. Yes, it's something else coming out of your paycheck (if your employer doesn't cover it), but it would probably be enough to live off of for most people. My short term disability insurance kicks in after I've been out of work for 30 days and covers me for 90 days, then my long term disability insurance kicks in after 90 days and goes on forever, pretty much. Both would give me 60% of my salary, and with both, I only have to go without income for 30 days.
And that's because I chose that option. There is a short term disability option that kicks in after 15 days, but I think I would be okay for 30 days so I chose the lower cost option.
I don't know what the burden of proof is, but either way, it's a heck of a lot faster to get than going through the government to try to qualify for disability.
I personally would not go to work without disability insurance since I have a mortgage and a car payment and I know what a high risk field I work in, but to each his own.
I agree if you have the option disability insurance is highly recommended and to have an own occupation clause. Where I work they offer disability, but over the years they have cut the benefit and I wonder what happens when the worker is no longer able to work, do they lose the coverage or are they able to pay for it out of the pocket if they end up on long term disability. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if the disability coverage would stop once they received social security disability. I have my own policy in addition to work, but it is only good for a year it was the only option they gave me years ago and now it is only about 1/4 of my take home pay. It did pay out once when I had gall bladder surgery. I keep it just in case! In the meantime, I've been building up my 403B and Roth IRA so I have options and money to draw on in case of an emergency.
I had an experience with short term disability I found interesting. I had surgery a few years ago and was on crutches temporarily. My workplace would not let me come back to work while I was on crutches, (instead they opted to pay me short term disability until I was fully off of crutches) even though there was plenty of desk work I could do for them. I guess they were afraid of the liability of me falling or someone else falling on my crutches?
Where I work I think a person would have a harder time getting a desk job if they knew you had a back problem or needed accommodations. In the past CNAs used to transition to HUCs as they got older, but that is no longer an option because now they only hire for HUC/CNA, the older HUCs are grandfathered in but the rest must work as a CNA.
Also they don't offer light duty for us if we are unable to work because of a non work related illness or injury. If we are on workers comp they will demand light duty to make sure we are not enjoying our time off. lol How can you enjoy time off if you are in pain and getting 60% of base wages while the bills still need to be paid!
You know what -- if I couldn't do the bedside, I'm make damned sure I LEARNED how to do QI, Case management or some other non-bedside position.
Just because you could do it, doesn't mean they would actually hire you! There are not enough desk job, non bedside nursing jobs to go around for all those who want or need them! Get real!
What we need is for working conditions to improve at the bedside by staffing ratios and a no lift environment with the necessary lifts, hover mats etc to allow nurses to keep on working. I want to laugh when people talk about nursing as a profession and we are professionals because that is not the way nurses are treated in hospitals! We are treated more like blue collar mules, punch in, don't be a minute late, scripting, and move people without equipment, oh here's a cheap plastic garbage bag aka patran slide to move people! The whole reason there has been a nursing shortage is because of the poor working conditions and many nurses voted with their feet by walking away from nursing completely!
In the meantime, if you can, get your BSN and seriously consider getting your NP so you can get a job where you are treated like a real professional and have good working conditions!
Cricket183, BSN, RN
1 Article; 268 Posts
I had both short and long term disability insurance policies when I initially went on what I anticipated to be an 8 week medical leave to have a spinal cord stimulator implanted in March 2007. (I had previously applied for intermittent FMLA when I was initially diagnosed with RSD/CRPS.) Long story short due to some cardiac issues my surgery was delayed. Trial stimulator was the end of Aug, permanent implant begining of Sept. 2007. During that time my FMLA ran out. I continued to contact employee health and my manager every week as required. No one bothered to tell me that HR had terminated me. I only found out when my surgeons office tried to verify benefits and they said I was no longer covered. I was able to apply for COBRA and we proceeded with surgery. I received both my STD & LTD benefits during that time but I was out a job.
The spinal cord stimulator was a success and when my surgeon released me I was able to then reapply to my old unit. I was rehired. (By the way, the reason I went back is because there was only one major hospital where we lived.) I worked for 4 months before my SCS failed and my RSD progressed to a point where working was no longer an option. Because I had only been back at work for four months I no longer qualified for benefits from my STD & LTD policies. We fought it, filed appeals, consulted attorneys--to no avail. I was just screwed. There is something wrong with a system that actually penalizes you for trying to return to work.
I was fortunate that unlike the majority of people I did not have to fight long & hard to qualify for SSDI. I was approved the first time I applied. I was able to carry COBRA (I carried all our family on my insurance) for 18 months and then we qualified for our states Risk Pool insurance coverage. Both were outrageously expensive but it was the only option available other than going without insurance.