So I am new here. Didn't see where to post an introduction so if I am out of line please direct me. I work in a large city hospital within the epilepsy unit. We monitor our patients on this floor with cameras and EEGs. I am sure many of you are quite familiar with this but I needed the background for the story.
There are a diverse group of nurses...male and female on this floor and obviously sometimes my male colleagues get female patients ans vice versa.
Tonight a patient's husband phoned the head nurse from home. He's home. She's here. He got my male coworker by mistake first and then me. I heard the accusations about my male colleague and they seem a bit over the top.
Then our head nurse came onto the floor to talk to the patient who was heard sobbing.
So here is what happened according to her
She complained about leg pain in her thigh area. My colleague told me it was ambiguous description.
So he went in and checked on her thighs for hot spots or lumps. Nothing so that was 1 day ago.
Today her husband called.
I had noticed her not eating and acting unusual today but I guessed she was just going through the motions of a week long hospitalization.
Her story was told to me first by mistake by her husband and it was like this
The male colleague of mine
Responded to her pain by turning her in room camera to the wall, removing her bottoms and then according to her she made two attempts to cover her privates with her gown but he kept forcefully uncovering them stating it was necessary for a check of the legs.
He was not assisted by a female nurse. But also according to her he did not do anything to her privates. He just touched her legs and then faced the camera back on her after allowing her to dress up.
He is well respected here. Hes married and used to seeing female genitalia and male. We are nurses for crying out loud. She has had children so obviously she has been exposed on a number of occasions and now he feels uncomfortable and embarrassed.
I think she overreacted considering her child birthing days are not too far in the past. Did she overreact?
Specializes in Prior Auth, SNF, HH, Peds Off., School Health, LTC.
I told her she should have had on underwear and that she should be used to having it all hang out since she's had a few kids here. But we provided underwear since she left her extras at home.
I really hope you didn't say that! Used to having it all hang out?! Are you kidding me?
Do you think prostitutes can't be raped, either? That someone dressed provocatively is asking for it?
You had no right to tell her she "should've" had underwear on. You may as well have told her she deserved to feel ashamed because she was naked under her gown.
Seriously, I'm just sitting here, utterly shocked that you were so callous to her being upset by this.
Your reaction about her emotional response to this is what is inappropriate. You have no idea what her background is as it relates to sexual assault or abuse. For all you know, it was difficult for her to have her lady partsl area exposed for childbirth, too. Or that she had female caregivers at her births because of this problem.
For her to be weepy, and have no appetite is proof of the psychological trauma the encounter caused for her. As a patient, she is naturally going to feel vulnerable, and apparently she was.
Emotional pain is what the patient says it is, too.
You really are way, way off the mark here. You may think you know your co-worker... but at the very least, he showed flawed judgement in how he handled the encounter.... and at the worst, he did do something inappropriate. For sure, he failed to pay attention to the patient's demeanor and reaction to what he was doing, and continued in the face of her discomfort.
There are many ways he could've examined her without deflecting the camera and without leaving her perineal area exposed: Moving the gown up to the groin but keeping it over the vulva; putting a washcloth, hand towel or even a pillowcase over her vulva; or upon noticing her discomfort, asking her if she'd like to put on underwear before he continued.
Btw, I don't typically wear panties when in in the hospital (except after childbirth to hold the pads), because it tends to keep riding up on me when I'm in bed, plus I always have to pee with more urgency when I'm hospitalized (idk why, it's weird) but panties get in the way when you are literally peeing as you sit. My point is I don't think it's that unusual to not wear panties.... I've never had a nurse say, "hey, why are you going commando? You should be wearing undies..."
That's a tricky situation for the male nurse. In our neuro unit, it is common practice to turn the camera away when the patient privacy's is compromised (e.g.: bathing, cleaning). However, I think his mistake was to physically touch the patient without a female in the room.
Our male nurses place urinary catheters, clean patients, etc., without a female present, as do our male nursing assistants. If a female patient requests a female nurse, we try to accomodate, but this is a hospital, we do what we can with what we have. Sometimes all of our staff is male.
I think this is a dangerous practice by the male nurses in your unit. They are easily, exposing themselves to unnecessary sexual harassment accusations. How hard it is to ask a female colleague (CNA, HUSC...it another nurse in not available) to be present for female foley insertion. We live in a very litigious society...male nurses, be aware.
To the OP, other than assign female nurses, you didn't elaborate what else your hospital has done to address the issue. Keep in mind nurses are mandatory reporters; In CA, a statement of patient accusing a health care provider of inappropriate touching will warrant a suspension of that staff (during the investigation) and the immediate reporting to the authorities. Failure of the hospital to be compliance would result in hefty fines and costly lawsuit by the patient.
I told her she should have had on underwear and that she should be used to having it all hang out since she's had a few kids here. But we provided underwear since she left her extras at home.
That's a tricky situation for the male nurse. In our neuro unit, it is common practice to turn the camera away when the patient privacy's is compromised (e.g.: bathing, cleaning). However, I think his mistake was to physically touch the patient without a female in the room.
I cannot imagine how we would function with a policy like this. We usually have several male nurses/male techs with nursing ratio of 1:6. Some shifts are 75% male staff. A male nurse might have all female patients. We simply would not be able to send another female with him every time he had to physically touch his patients.
As others have said though, this nurse made a serious error in judgment. At the very least he should have explained what he needed to do in order to assess and given HER the choice to turn the camera off or not. She may have been aware enough at that point to ask for a female nurse, which would have been perfectly fine and appropriate considering her sensitivity.
Was this patient fully cognizant and able to communicate? If so, she either was too embarrassed to say something or he was not listening to her objection.
If she said no, he should've stopped. He could've asked what would make her comfortable and worked with that. That wouldve been the decent thing to do.
At the very least he should have explained what he needed to do in order to assess and given HER the choice to turn the camera off or not. She may have been aware enough at that point to ask for a female nurse, which would have been perfectly fine and appropriate considering her sensitivity.
Was this patient fully cognizant and able to communicate? If so, she either was too embarrassed to say something or he was not listening to her objection.
...What makes you think that he didn't explain to her what he intended to do?? This is exactly, why it is wise for male nurses to enlist a female witness in any situation that involve intimate touching; because at the end of the day, it will be a she said/he said situation...and guess who will have the short stick.
...and just to clarify, I didn't mean to have a female present for routine interventions (common sense should be your guide).
She has had children so obviously she has been exposed on a number of occasions and now he feels uncomfortable and embarrassed.
I think she overreacted considering her child birthing days are not too far in the past. Did she overreact?
This type of argument is called a non sequitur. What it means is that your conclusion that she shouldn't be embarrassed does not logically follow from the argument that she has had her genitals exposed before due to having children.
Past that, I think your male colleague, even if he did not intentionally mean to do anything wrong, made a lot of mistakes here. Considering everything you've posted, the patient is not over-reacting. Personally, if that had happened to me, and I had been the patient, I'd be upset too.
I told her she should have had on underwear and that she should be used to having it all hang out since she's had a few kids here. But we provided underwear since she left her extras at home.
YOU SAID THAT TO THE PATIENT?! WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU.
Seriously! So her being uncomfortable with a male nurse that close to her genitalia is HER fault for not wearing panties? It's her fault because she had a couple kids she should just be used to people being all up in her genitals? Just because he's well respected means he couldn't possibly have done anything unprofessional, this is all on her reaction? I guess even nurses can victim blame.
Patient's have a right to privacy and modesty. You have no right to tell her how modest she should be, or to blame her for your coworkers conduct. In fact YOU shouldn't even be discussing the matter with her! You're not the charge nurse. You're not even involved. You don't need to go to the bat for your co worker. What you've done is effectively gang up on this poor woman who felt victimized. No wonder she was in her room crying.
A male nurse walked into this woman's room, TURNED THE CAMERA, SHUT THE DOOR, and started "inspecting" this woman's upper thigh area/vulva region. She wanted him to stop, told him to stop, and he continued despite this telling her "it's necessary". And you think she's overreacting? HE VIOLATED HER. The very second she said stop, tried to squirm around covering herself up, or even LOOKED like she was uncomfortable, he should have backed off, and apologized. He also should have likely explained to her, OR ASKED HER if she wanted the door shut, or the camera turned. "Ms. ABC, I am going to take a look at your thighs because you complained of pain. This might expose you a little, so I am going to shut the door and turn this camera, is that okay?" He also could have just asked her to show him the area of complaint.
Your coworker did wrong. YOU did wrong. What's the number to this patient's room? She clearly needs an advocate and your staff obviously is too worried about your male coworker's ego to help her.
This is a troll, right? This has to be a troll post. If not, this is some serious victim blaming and gaslighting. I really really hope this is a troll.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I told her she should have had on underwear and that she should be used to having it all hang out since she's had a few kids here. But we provided underwear since she left her extras at home.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Fine yes...
There is no way to prove either side at this point because the camera was turned away. She said he kept removing the gown from her pubic mound then. But I can't prove either side. He is married and has never had a complaint of this nature although I can't for 100 per cent claim he is spotless.
Why do YOU need to prove anything? The fact that he's married is completely irrelevant. Frankly, your attitude and words here are appalling. Part of me thinks you MUST be trolling us.
Duranie
84 Posts
I really hope you didn't say that! Used to having it all hang out?!
Are you kidding me?
Do you think prostitutes can't be raped, either? That someone dressed provocatively is asking for it?
You had no right to tell her she "should've" had underwear on. You may as well have told her she deserved to feel ashamed because she was naked under her gown.
Seriously, I'm just sitting here, utterly shocked that you were so callous to her being upset by this.
Your reaction about her emotional response to this is what is inappropriate. You have no idea what her background is as it relates to sexual assault or abuse. For all you know, it was difficult for her to have her lady partsl area exposed for childbirth, too. Or that she had female caregivers at her births because of this problem.
For her to be weepy, and have no appetite is proof of the psychological trauma the encounter caused for her. As a patient, she is naturally going to feel vulnerable, and apparently she was.
Emotional pain is what the patient says it is, too.
You really are way, way off the mark here.
You may think you know your co-worker... but at the very least, he showed flawed judgement in how he handled the encounter.... and at the worst, he did do something inappropriate. For sure, he failed to pay attention to the patient's demeanor and reaction to what he was doing, and continued in the face of her discomfort.
There are many ways he could've examined her without deflecting the camera and without leaving her perineal area exposed: Moving the gown up to the groin but keeping it over the vulva; putting a washcloth, hand towel or even a pillowcase over her vulva; or upon noticing her discomfort, asking her if she'd like to put on underwear before he continued.
Btw, I don't typically wear panties when in in the hospital (except after childbirth to hold the pads), because it tends to keep riding up on me when I'm in bed, plus I always have to pee with more urgency when I'm hospitalized (idk why, it's weird) but panties get in the way when you are literally peeing as you sit. My point is I don't think it's that unusual to not wear panties.... I've never had a nurse say, "hey, why are you going commando? You should be wearing undies..."