Descrimination: A full hot meal or soup and a sandwich

[Truth66]

Just when I thought our management couldn't get any more pathetic. Well, they have pushed the envelope even further.

At the begining of December the dietary manager decided (without notice) that the meal times during the day were going to change. Staff were not going to be served a full hot meal until after 12:30 pm, after the residents have all eaten their lunch. However, there are two categories of workers that usually have their lunch earlier which is 10:45 am and 11:15 am. They are the Practical Nurses and the Care Aides. For these workers they will only be entitled to have hot soup and a sandwich.

Well this didn't sit too well with these workers. So they decided on their own to change their lunch times in order for them to have the same full hot meal options that the rest of the workers were having in the building. Well the Director of Nursing got wind of this and she was not impressed. She ordered the Practical Nurses and the Care Aides to go back to their previous meal times and any change in staff meal times must go through proper channels and put to a vote with the union.

I have since filed a descrimination grievance and nothing will be looked into until after the first week of January. However, with this particular union's lousy track record of not wanting to hold the employer accountable on anything, I'm not holding my breath. So for over a month the Practical Nurses and the Care Aides will be served the equivalant of a soup kitchen at lunch time, even though their shift starts the same time as other departments (including the R.N.'s) in the building and will be treated as second class health care workers. This has created enourmous amounts of unnecesary tenstion through out the building.

[Mr Ian]

BTW it doesn't matter what is written in the contract - if there has always been a hot meal then that becomes a service that the employer has to provide and if its taken away to part of the staff then a judge might not look kindly to that. I'm sure there are legal terms for this.

I believe it's called 'custom and practice'.

I'm curious to see if they do play the 'soup IS a hot meal' card. A good point - whoever made that one. But custom and practice should prevail.

I think Truth66 has certainly got more debate than she anticipated (gender assumption).

Curiously I want to know if the reason for the staggered breaks is to keep the kitchen workload at a steady pace. If so, when managment were all away having basted turkey roast last week - did the CNAs and PNs get the option to go later?

I also wonder if the DoN's reaction was due to issues or power and control or genuine logistical reasoning. Even if it wasn't a power thing and she was just annoyed at not being consulted about the break change - hmmm.... there's an irony.

It all depends really on the reasoning given to the union rep as to why it was done to elicit what options might be available. Organisation does have some right to enact best practice - but they are required to 'show cause'.

Sounds like you've got the process in hand tho. If it comes back as 'Well someone had to lose out cos it had to be done' - I'd be asking why those staff and not others. I don't know if the 'too bad, too sad' defence will cover them.

Would it be wrong to suggest this thread should be put forward for inclusion in the next edition of "Chicken soup for the Nurse's Soul"?

[MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN]

To the student: Work for a year as a nurse before judging anyone or even offering an opinion unless you have worked in a facility and can base your opinion or personal knowledge.

To the person who stated "Lpns and Cna work harder than RN's": Wouldn't know, only RNs where I do my 12-15hrs!

To the OP: Honestly, while I would not be happy perhaps that I didn't get the full hot meal, a soup and a sandwich isn't too bad! However, if it is too terrible I agree with all of the others bring your union in, as your facility explains to the arbitrator or whomever decides your union's cases that is was a cost saving effort and that they must now abolish meals for all. Remember hot soup and a sandwich wasn't too bad.

Additionally, perhaps you may want to inquire as to why the change was made, is your facility in financial trouble? Are reimbursements down? While some on this thread will say that's not your problem, I say it is.

To all: union or not, it is all of our responsibility to save money in our facilities....in case you all haven't noticed reimbursements from the government and private insurers are down....admissions are down.....people will just die at home, or end up in ICU spending thousands because they couldn't afford care or co pays. With this economy a little fiscal responsibility goes a long way, for those who will whine and say "that was the way it was", I say for right now, "this is the way it is". While the mess is not of our making, it is partially within our power to make it better.

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

To the student: Work for a year as a nurse before judging anyone or even offering an opinion unless you have worked in a facility and can base your opinion or personal knowledge.

To the person who stated "Lpns and Cna work harder than RN's": Wouldn't know, only RNs where I do my 12-15hrs!

To the OP: Honestly, while I would not be happy perhaps that I didn't get the full hot meal, a soup and a sandwich isn't too bad! However, if it is too terrible I agree with all of the others bring your union in, as your facility explains to the arbitrator or whomever decides your union's cases that is was a cost saving effort and that they must now abolish meals for all. Remember hot soup and a sandwich wasn't too bad.

Additionally, perhaps you may want to inquire as to why the change was made, is your facility in financial trouble? Are reimbursements down? While some on this thread will say that's not your problem, I say it is.

To all: union or not, it is all of our responsibility to save money in our facilities....in case you all haven't noticed reimbursements from the government and private insurers are down....admissions are down.....people will just die at home, or end up in ICU spending thousands because they couldn't afford care or co pays. With this economy a little fiscal responsibility goes a long way, for those who will whine and say "that was the way it was", I say for right now, "this is the way it is". While the mess is not of our making, it is partially within our power to make it better.

This year, my facility elected not to pay bonuses to the staff because our bottom line wasn't as healthy as in past years. The explanation was that we've had a lower proportion of surg pts to med, and med just doesn't generate as much income. I'm disappointed, but accept their explanation. And the "cut" was across the board, at least as far as wage-earning staff. I don't know, and don't really want to know, whether management will still get their bonuses, but I would think it was poor judgement if the decision had been that nurses will get bonuses while CNA's don't. That, like the situation the OP described, would seem needlessly divisive. And, as you note, my efforts to reduce costs in the coming year may have an impact on whether there's a bonus, next year.

I agree, too, with the advice that a student or new nurse would be wise to avoid coming across as too opinionated in the workplace. I'm assuming you were not admonishing her to keep her opinions to herself on these boards. There are ample examples (heh, heh, I'm a poet!) throughout these forums that knowing what you're talking about is not a prerequisite, many of which, I'm sure, are courtesy of yours truly. In the case of MsTn81, I think she has nailed the situation. It's not about soup, it's about fairness. On my unit, at least on nights, the nurses and aides are a team. Several of the aides I work with make me look like a better nurse than I am. I know it and they know it. And I'd squawk if management started doing things to mess that up.

I've already made one sarcastic (in case anyone failed to catch it) remark about what I perceived as a lack of nursing unity on this thread, and maybe that wasn't entirely justified. Lord knows, there are times at work when one or another coworker goes on a rant about something that just doesn't seem all that serious, to me. By the time someone says, "Don't get me started," we all know it's too late. I never married, but I've dated enough to learn how to nod and look sympathetic without actually taking up the crusade. That may not actually be the paragon of nursing unity, but it creates a lot less friction than, "Stop whining." So I think the student poster has a point, and I hope she'll be the type of working nurse who is looking for ways to support her peers--if not necessarily to the death over every issue.

So I hope things work out equitably for Truth66's coworkers, and to those who aren't getting a lunch at all, your facility may not be obligated to feed you, but they are (at least in the US) obligated to give you a lunch break, and as Tweety so astutely observed, lunch is a priority. Maybe not always a top priority, but not the bottom one either--at least not usually. I firmly believe nurses should get discounts at fine dining establishments, because we don't tie up tables over niceties like actually chewing our food. But even a lean, mean, nursing machine needs fuel.

[Mr Ian]

To the student: Work for a year as a nurse before judging anyone or even offering an opinion unless you have worked in a facility and can base your opinion or personal knowledge.

I've done a few years - I wholly agree with her/his observations.

Sometimes being able to stand away from the trees helps you to see the forest much clearer.

To the person who stated "Lpns and Cna work harder than RN's": Wouldn't know, only RNs where I do my 12-15hrs!

Yet you determine the student poster is not qualified to speak on the thread - because why?

I'm sure you've worked somewhere with LPNs, CNAs - I have too and agree that in a properly functioning LTC (or other health care) unit the unqualified or certificated staff are the ones who do the most donkey work the most consistently.

To the OP: Honestly, while I would not be happy perhaps that I didn't get the full hot meal, a soup and a sandwich isn't too bad! However, if it is too terrible I agree with all of the others bring your union in, as your facility explains to the arbitrator or whomever decides your union's cases that is was a cost saving effort and that they must now abolish meals for all. Remember hot soup and a sandwich wasn't too bad.

I agree in principle that hot soup and sammies is not the end of the world. I think Truth66 would agree - but it's not so simple.

Additionally, perhaps you may want to inquire as to why the change was made, is your facility in financial trouble? Are reimbursements down? While some on this thread will say that's not your problem, I say it is.

But is it just the PN and CNA's problem? If there's an organisational issue - don't you have a problem with selective rationing?

To all: union or not, it is all of our responsibility to save money in our facilities....in case you all haven't noticed reimbursements from the government and private insurers are down....admissions are down.....people will just die at home, or end up in ICU spending thousands because they couldn't afford care or co pays. With this economy a little fiscal responsibility goes a long way, for those who will whine and say "that was the way it was", I say for right now, "this is the way it is". While the mess is not of our making, it is partially within our power to make it better.

Agreed.

But the LPNs and CNAs are not all of the staff and are certainly not likely to be the primary culprits for poor financial management of the establishment.

I think you're missing the point.

If your management said your facility was not doing so well financially - and "we've decided RN's should be the ones to take a 2% pay cut as that saves us the most overall money for the least individual losses" - would you just nod and say "Ok, that seems fair"?

It is not the LPNs or CNAs specific rights or the organisation's need to run operationally smoothly that is the crux -

- it is the practice of arbitrary discrimination of one group in a breach of a working agreement.

"When all is said and done, more is said than done." - Lou Holtz

[withasmilelpn]

OK,

#1 It is about fairness. If it is a cost saving measure, then it would be reasonable to expect it to be apllied across the board to all groups.

#2 It is about perception as well.

Clearly, the LPNs and CNAs felt this was important to them-they changed their lunch schedules.

The DON's reversal of that elevated it from an oversight to a power struggle; Us vs Them.

Those feelings usually already exist in relationships between CNAs, LPNs and RNs unfortunately. There are tons of examples on these boards to prove it. Something as small as this lends validation to their feelings.

#3 Moral affects the entire company, how well it runs and patient care too. Resentful employees do not often make good employees. Moral can be a tenuous thing in health care, our jobs are very stressful. Good management practices acknowledge that. Places that don't have high turnover and typically poor patient care.

#4 To those who don't get lunch at all- just because something is offered, does not mean that you get to take it. I have worked in places that provide free lunch, lunch you have to pay for, and where you either brought it or ordered takeout. It always depended on how busy I was, how well staffed we were, and how supportive my coworkers were on whether I took my lunch. I am absolutely sure that those conditions apply as well to these

workers.

#5 I usually try to be among those that do take a break. I side with nurses who believe it is not good for us or our patients not to.

#6 There is some truth to the idea that direct patient care usually is more physically demanding, whereas the supervision/management is usually emotionally more demanding. However, the truth is our jobs are all hard, and I think that this is an overly simplistic view as to what those jobs entail if you haven't done it. I've been fortunate to be a CNA, LPN and House superviser, so I think I have a good idea. Now I'm (finally) going on for my RN and onward to a new perspective. Wish me luck!

[alpha omega]

Wait a minute--if I'm reading you correctly you all get served free food?

I want free food.

[MsTn81]

Originally Posted by MAISY, RN-ER

To the student: Work for a year as a nurse before judging anyone or even offering an opinion unless you have worked in a facility and can base your opinion or personal knowledge.

Maisy,

RN

,-ER.... you dont know anything about me or the experience I have to have the balls to say what i should know or do before offering my opinion. For your info I do have experience in LTC and I see it everyday. Hot head

Rn

's like you that make the LPN's and CNA's work experience hell because they think they are better. " I wasnt judging before but now I am HA HA HA!!!" From what I see there is not a support system it's all for yourself. I didnt come here to argue with anyone (and im not) or be told that my opinion will not be acknowledge by anyone i dont care how many years of experience you have or what your title may be. We all put our pants on one leg at a time no one is above the other. And again that my few pennies!!!

[Princess_M83]

You're preaching to the choir here. I wonder how different the responses would have been if you had posted this in the Canadian Forum.

Most American nurses aren't unionized and from what I've read here, many regards unions with same distaste as they would the anti-christ.

Our mindset is different. The unions that bargain for PNs and Aides have to fight long and hard for what they've achieved. In my province, the government rolls over and gives the RN union pretty much whatever is asked for. PNs had to fight for every last cent and benefit. Yet, the public sees a nurse at the bedside and assumes that we all make the same wage and have the same benefits.

While it might seem like a mountain is being made out of a molehill to the American respondents, to the Canadians and the Australians who have posted here, we understand how management is chipping away at one groups contract to the benefit of another unions contract.

I have to agree that most of us here in America aren't union, however my husband works for a union contractor and if the employer does anything that steps out of the bounds of that contract they are held liable for their actions. Grieve it, I would, it is unfair for those who take breaks earlier or later to be treated differently when your contract was specifically negotiated for a hot meal for all employees. They can not arbitrarily change things without going through proper channels first.

[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

The hospital I am precepting at closes the cafeteria at 4:30; and none of the staff are provided with meals, they have to buy them themselves before 4:30 and then warm them up later. Those on NOC shift are SOL (8hr shifts)

[P_RN, ADN, RN]

Are you certain it was just the dietary manager who made the decision. It may be they have had to cut back on staff.

Could you suggest rotating lunch times, buddy times as in 1 RN, 1 LPN and 1 care worker go at a time? Everything doesn't have to be mandated sometimes just common sense works just as well.

[Susan9608]

Thanks for explaining - again - how your facility functions. I was having a hard time understanding how break times could be predetermined and how multiple people could take a break at the same time. I've never worked in that type of environment; I've always worked in critical care or on a pediatric floor that did not utilize LVNs or nurses' aides, so my co-workers and I always have had to take breaks one at a time. That was where my confusion came in.

I agree with you that it is discriminatory to provide something that not everyone has access to. I just wonder if the fact that your contract only states that employees must be allowed to purchase food (without specifying that it be a full meal) will keep your grievance from prevailing.

I hope you will be able to work it out, one way or another, either by forcing the facility to provide the same food for everyone or by rotating break times so everyone has the same opportunities.

[Truth66]

Are you certain it was just the dietary manager who made the decision. It may be they have had to cut back on staff.

Could you suggest rotating lunch times, buddy times as in 1 RN, 1 LPN and 1 care worker go at a time? Everything doesn't have to be mandated sometimes just common sense works just as well.

It's not completely known as to the reason why dietary changed other than they were changing the way they were preparing the meals. The fact is that the Practical Nurses and the Aides tried to change to reflect the dietary change, but were ordered by the DON to go back to the previous times. A reminder that the change from dietary came without notice. The memo was sent to all the units at 10:51 AM via Lotus Notes. That's 6 minutes after the Practical Nurses and the Aides start their first lunch. Litterally no notice!!!!