Denmark becomes first EU country to lift all Covid-19 restrictions

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by chare chare Member Nurse

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CommunityRNBSN

CommunityRNBSN, BSN, RN

Specializes in Community health. Has 4 years experience. 815 Posts

For the record, I’m in a very blue US state and we haven’t had anything that could possibly be conceived of as a “lockdown” since March of 2020. I feel like the right wing keeps talking about lockdowns, and acting like that’s a thing in the US. In my state (which, again, is a left-leaning one for sure), people are mostly still wearing masks. But everything is open— we went to the movies and laser tag last weekend, the kids are in school and on buses, there are no capacity limits on anything. I’m just sort of throwing that out there for context: for anyone who lives outside the US and reads media (or lives in Texas and sees what the media is claiming about “liberal states”)— there are no lockdowns in the US. There haven’t been in two years. 

Guest219794

Guest219794

2,453 Posts

This has actually been an educational thread.

Daisy- thank you for posting that link.  It gave others the opportunity to show how something with a grain of truth can be manipulated.  It really got my attention that a Johns Hopkins study about lockdowns showed them to be ineffective. 

For starters, I learned how some define "lockdowns": “lockdowns are defined as the imposition of at least one compulsory, non-pharmaceutical intervention (NPI).”  I had thought that a lockdown meant some kind of meaningful restriction in movement or commerce.  While it includes that, it also includes mandated mask wearing, distancing, or other strategies that are, at worst, inconvenient.  Now when I hear folks object to "lockdowns", I will have some context.

And, referring to that paper as a "John's Hopkins Study" reflects either ignorance or malice.  I suspect that the article  Daisy linked to was a result of ignorance and laziness (article author- not Daisy).  

On the other hand, FOX created this graphic.  No doubt those who saw it believed it was a product of Hopkins, rather than a product of FOX.

image.thumb.png.e6218fd44f04415fc2e74aa5bc7fe709.png 

The fact that three leading economists put their reputations behind this paper makes it worth discussing.  Daisy presented it for discussion.  The discussion, while it appears to have hurt some feelings, was educational, and spurred me to do a bit of reading.

 

image.png

Propaganda continues to titillate those who don't want to mitigate this contagion.  It's an interesting but dangerous phenomenon to observe play out in American current events.  

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,072 Posts

13 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:

While that may be true IMO it would be prudent to go one step (or more) further and ask ourselves why that is the case. The study was an instrument to get people to think, a working paper is just that, a work in progress. Our society has become so polarized that no one is even listening to and contemplating what was said/ other points of view (or worse questioning one’s nursing ,or other, capabilities) So, why (if true) did people in other societies listen when some people here in the US haven’t? I have my opinions. 

You just can't compare highly vaccinated countries with us.  We are still undervaccinated.  Why?  Because we are more stupid.  We are also lagging in educational measures.  We have more fundamentalist religions which want to keep their "autonomy" than other industrialized nations.  We're a big country with a huge urban -rural divide.  

Guest219794

Guest219794

2,453 Posts

On 2/5/2022 at 10:27 AM, Daisy4RN said:

If I am not mistaken the research was done by Johns Hopkins, and if I am not mistaken Johns Hopkins is a respectable organization. However, there are plenty of sham “research” articles advocating for the continued lockdowns including  schools that are harming children, and stores etc that have bankrupted people. We need a balance to keep society proceeding forward.

I think you are mistaken.  The research was done by three economists one of whom is a JH professor.  Apparently a well known (in some circles) conservative/libertarian who contributes to the conservative National Review and is a senior fellow at the CATO Institute, a libertarian organization.

That being said, the fact that three well known economists are willing to stake their reputations behind the study make it worthy of discussion.

Now, if it was a peer reviewed study by experts in the subject matter,  rather than by economists, it would hold different weight.

On a side note, for anybody interested in how medical issues and economics relate to each other, there is an interesting podcast by an economist/MD.   

 

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,072 Posts

On 2/5/2022 at 10:27 AM, Daisy4RN said:

If I am not mistaken the research was done by Johns Hopkins, and if I am not mistaken Johns Hopkins is a respectable organization. However, there are plenty of sham “research” articles advocating for the continued lockdowns including  schools that are harming children, and stores etc that have bankrupted people. We need a balance to keep society proceeding forward.

Yes, you are mistaken.  This is Fox broadcasting baloney.  There was a recent story in the fake news NY Times about how much more dark money was donated by Democrats over Republicans.  Do you see the difference?  Fox would never report a story so unflattering to Republicans.  And they manipulated the message to their listeners that this was a legitimate study linked to JH.  

Cmbnurse

Cmbnurse, BSN, RN

Specializes in Neuro ICU. Has 1 years experience. 106 Posts

5 hours ago, CommunityRNBSN said:

For the record, I’m in a very blue US state and we haven’t had anything that could possibly be conceived of as a “lockdown” since March of 2020. I feel like the right wing keeps talking about lockdowns, and acting like that’s a thing in the US. In my state (which, again, is a left-leaning one for sure), people are mostly still wearing masks. But everything is open— we went to the movies and laser tag last weekend, the kids are in school and on buses, there are no capacity limits on anything. I’m just sort of throwing that out there for context: for anyone who lives outside the US and reads media (or lives in Texas and sees what the media is claiming about “liberal states”)— there are no lockdowns in the US. There haven’t been in two years. 

I disagree. Schools we're still closed in my area for everyone including young children all the way up to April 2021. And when they did "open" it was only for 3 hours and they were not allowed to use the playground, teachers couldn't even pass out papers, and they couldn't eat lunch at school. So while disneyland was open and other businesses the school system was still in "lockdown." And this continued into the Summer of 2021. So parts of society were still in lockdown mode even less than one year ago. 

21 minutes ago, Cmbnurse said:

I disagree. Schools we're still closed in my area for everyone including young children all the way up to April 2021. And when they did "open" it was only for 3 hours and they were not allowed to use the playground, teachers couldn't even pass out papers, and they couldn't eat lunch at school. So while disneyland was open and other businesses the school system was still in "lockdown." And this continued into the Summer of 2021. So parts of society were still in lockdown mode even less than one year ago. 

This data is no longer updated because the current administration is not in favor of lockdowns, preferring immunization as the mitigation of focus. Even so, it organizes and publishes the data about lockdowns for 2020 and 2021 in an understandable fashion.  

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/map-where-are-schools-closed/2020/07

I live in the blood red state of Alaska. Our schools were closed to in person learning for quite some time.  We were trying not to crash our tiny and remote health system. 

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,072 Posts

6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

This data is no longer updated because the current administration is not in favor of lockdowns, preferring immunization as the mitigation of focus. Even so, it organizes and publishes the data about lockdowns for 2020 and 2021 in an understandable fashion.  

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/map-where-are-schools-closed/2020/07

I live in the blood red state of Alaska. Our schools were closed to in person learning for quite some time.  We were trying not to crash our tiny and remote health system. 

Our schools were in an open/close cycle for a long time but not because of "lockdowns."  It only took a few sick teachers, bus drivers, maintenance workers to bring schools to close. We now have chronic shortages of all the above. The schools are now open without enough bus drivers so parents have to transport their kids.  It's hard on everyone but not because we are in "lockdown."  We are just drowning. If you are breathing you can teach!  No college degree required.  That's all we can get.

Tweety, BSN, RN

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac. Has 30 years experience. 31,591 Posts

It's probably just a coincidence when Florida ended it's lockdown we entered a dark and deadly time with our first covid surge, but we never looked back.  

The paper addresses the death rate but not that ICUs were full, nurses were begging people on their hands and knees to get vaccinated and wear a mask it was so horrible.

I think it's important to look at this paper and understand that as we proceed lockdowns might not be the way to proceed.  Fair enough but getting all bent out of shape when the US has been in a fully open status for a long time and not even Biden or anyone is talking about locking down again isn't necessary. 

I do applaud Denmark and really think we should enter into a phase of living with covid and not having mandates of any kind. Let people wear a mask if they want to or to "take their chances" if they want to, vaccinate if they want or not.   It's how we do it in Florida and yes Omicron hit us extra hard with absenteeism and hospitalizations, but life has to go on somehow.

subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,072 Posts

On 2/12/2022 at 5:59 PM, Tweety said:

It's probably just a coincidence when Florida ended it's lockdown we entered a dark and deadly time with our first covid surge, but we never looked back.  

The paper addresses the death rate but not that ICUs were full, nurses were begging people on their hands and knees to get vaccinated and wear a mask it was so horrible.

I think it's important to look at this paper and understand that as we proceed lockdowns might not be the way to proceed.  Fair enough but getting all bent out of shape when the US has been in a fully open status for a long time and not even Biden or anyone is talking about locking down again isn't necessary. 

I do applaud Denmark and really think we should enter into a phase of living with covid and not having mandates of any kind. Let people wear a mask if they want to or to "take their chances" if they want to, vaccinate if they want or not.   It's how we do it in Florida and yes Omicron hit us extra hard with absenteeism and hospitalizations, but life has to go on somehow.

Yes.  Denmark is over 80% vaccinated and deserves our applause.  They are in an entirely different strata than us.  But which paper are you talking about?  The one attributed to JH which is b.s. since no one is advocating "lockdowns" anyway.  
 

Tweety, BSN, RN

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac. Has 30 years experience. 31,591 Posts

2 hours ago, subee said:

Yes.  Denmark is over 80% vaccinated and deserves our applause.  They are in an entirely different strata than us.  But which paper are you talking about?  The one attributed to JH which is b.s. since no one is advocating "lockdowns" anyway.  
 

Still, Denmark this week is averaging over 45,000 cases a day in a population of 5.8 million.  Florida's 7 day average is 10,000 with a population of 20 million, with almost 65% vaccinated so no, you can't compare.  

California with 25,000 cases a day, much less than Denmarks is hesitant about removing restrictions.

Yes the JH study is the one I'm referring to since it's discussed in several posts above.  This is an international forum and some countries during Omicron like Austria went back into lockdown.  Australia had one of the longest lockdowns in the world.  But Americans and Fox News getting bent out of shape about this study when lockdowns here haven't happened in a almost 1.5 years is annoying.  

Also, there is discussion about this study being flawed.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968401?uac=94896SX&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4019934&src=mkm_covid_update_220214_MSCPEDIT#vp_3

Edited by Tweety