Delta Variant is Spreading Like Wildfire in Florida

[NewRN'16]

And our governor does nothing about it. He even banned municipalities from enacting their own mandatory masks rules. I am truly terrified, even thought about leaving my job and start some travel assignments, just to get out of here. 

Almost no one is wearing masks in public establishments. Restaurants and attractions are at full capacity. We had 21,000 new cases of Covid 19 yesterday alone. ?

I am not looking forward to working on a Covid unit again. I know it's about to happen, but inside of me, I don't think I have the strength to go through it again. 

I am at a loss.. 

[JKL33]

3 minutes ago, macawake said:

I don’t try to reason with them. I would have to be extremely naive to think that anything I say would have any effect whatsoever.

I'm sorry about that. I have had a number of real life conversations where people either 1) changed their mind 2) toned things down or 3) at the very least retreated/ceased to have a credible voice in scenarios and circles where their misinformation was having an effect. And every one of these conversations in which I have participated I have not needed any of these cutesy-sarcastic tactics that do nothing but infuriate people. I have done nothing other than show concern/interest and repeatedly give the best factual information I had at the time along with rationales I knew would make at least a little bit of sense to the people. This approach isn't a formula; it's never going to magically get everyone vaccinated. But the attitudes I'm countering with my posts are not going to get anyone vaccinated.

[JKL33]

5 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

But therein lies the crux of this issue: these people don't need to persuaded about the vaccine, it has nothing to do with the vaccine in the end. They don't want the vaccine. They don't want to wear masks. They don't want to socially distance. Using the equally unhelpful label of "anti-vax" is more of a misnomer than "pro-disease". 

So, part of what I suspect is that there is a very small subset of people who actually have zero interest, believe the government is out to get them and destroy their way of life, and they will willingly take their position straight to the grave with no regrets if that's where it leads them.

I think there are a lot more people (than that amount ^) who are affected by the messages they hear but have not come to their conclusions independently and are not very secure in what they think they believe about it all. They've just been significantly affected and thrown into doubt and confusion by the stuff they hear from ^ that group. They've heard so much BS that they actually think they are playing it safe by not getting vaccinated. But they are not unreachable. I know for a fact that I have reached some of them.

I hope this will not be taken the wrong way--I'm not great at much in life but for some reason I seem to be very perceptive and read people with enough accuracy that I surprise myself sometimes. I pick up on very small cues. I don't know why. [I think it's why I loved the job that so many ED nurses hate--triage! I am good at it.]

It's important to understand where people are coming from. Sometimes putting them into groups helps, but not if we don't really know about people so we put them in the wrong group.

This is part of the reason why I take some offense to some of what is written on here. Sometimes I feel like saying, "If you don't know much about people and don't really care to know then just get out of the way...don't make things worse."

[macawake, MSN]

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

I'm sorry about that. I have had a number of real life conversations where people either 1) changed their mind 2) toned things down or 3) at the very least retreated/ceased to have a credible voice in scenarios and circles where their misinformation was having an effect.

I was specifically referring to posters. That means online. Not real life. 

In real life you most often know who are talking to and is a whole other thing.

What do you make of a poster who starts a new account and who makes one single post, when that post claims that Covid isn’t real, that the Covid vaccines are dangerous and that strokes, infertility, paralysis and death are common side effects and then go on to offer advice on taking alternative treatments that have neither been proven safe nor effective? These posters never post in any other forum than the Covid one, and don’t seem interested in other nursing related issues.

Have you ever thought about the fact that the internet/social media is awash with disinformation about Covid in general and about mRNA vaccines in particular? What do you make of that?

Apart from the U.S., there are two other countries who are major Covid vaccine manufacturers; China and Russia. Why do you think there’s not the same amount of disinformation about those vaccines? As an American you might think it’s because you don’t use those vaccines. But I can tell you, that they are used in many Eastern European countries, along with the mRNA vaccines. And it’s the same situation there. There’s almost only online disinformation about the vaccines with a U.S. connection. Who benefits from sowing discord and distrust in the west? I will let you draw your own the conclusions about the origin of much of the disinformation we see online and whether some posts on various social media could be written by people that in some circles, are referred to as ”useful idiots”. Not a very nice term I know, but I didn’t invent it.

 

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

And every one of these conversations in which I have participated I have not needed any of these cutesy-sarcastic tactics that do nothing but infuriate people.

Neither have I. In. real. life. I find that real, live people without ulterior motives and hidden agendas are quite easy to talk to and to relate to.

This might just be me, but I’m not very concerned if I infuriate someone who I think is actively causing harm, by spreading lies that can have a negative effect on people’s health and lives. They are already causing harm. It’s not my goal to infuriate them, but I’m wondering what would be the rationale for taking extra care trying to avoid it? 
 

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

This is part of the reason why I take some offense to some of what is written on here. Sometimes I feel like saying, "If you don't know much about people and don't really care to know then just get out of the way...don't make things worse."

Do you think that making the soil a less fertile breeding ground for disinformation, is making things worse?

I personally think that nurses and other healthcare professionals who don’t step up to the plate and defend science when it’s being challenged by disinformation and lies, are the ones who are abdicating their responsibility. 

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

So, part of what I suspect is that there is a very small subset of people who actually have zero interest, believe the government is out to get them and destroy their way of life, and they will willingly take their position straight to the grave with no regrets if that's where it leads them.

Why do you think it’s a very small subset?  I think they are in at least the tens of millions range in the U.S. alone. 

[JKL33]

1 hour ago, macawake said:

What do you make of a poster who starts a new account and who makes one single post, when that post claims that Covid isn’t real, that the Covid vaccines are dangerous and that strokes, infertility, paralysis and death are common side effects and then go on to offer advice on taking alternative treatments that have neither been proven safe nor effective? These posters never post in any other forum than the Covid one, and don’t seem interested in other nursing related issues.

1. They are spreading harmful disinformation

2. I don't know who they are or what any of their IRL affiliations are, and neither do you

3. Their information should be rebutted with facts if one chooses to address them

4. Insults might feel good but are unnecessary

5. We are using this site as a free resource; I have no problem if the admins decide they want to disallow the type of post/poster you describe

1 hour ago, macawake said:

 I will let you draw your own the conclusions about the origin of much of the disinformation we see online and whether some posts on various social media could be written by people that in some circles, are referred to as ”useful idiots”. Not a very nice term I know, but I didn’t invent it.

Oh, I've thought of it.

But I appreciate you bringing up the topic because I would bet my last penny that some of the ranters aren't ranting AT ALL about the possibility you just mentioned and probably just had a great big lightbulb moment. Nah, they are ranting for completely different reasons. You know that.

1 hour ago, macawake said:

This might just be me, but I’m not very concerned if I infuriate someone who I think is actively causing harm, by spreading lies that can have a negative effect on people’s health and lives. They are already causing harm. It’s not my goal to infuriate them, but I’m wondering what would be the rationale for taking extra care trying to avoid it? 

So it goes back to my belief that all disinformation is not spread for the same reason. And in my book motives usually count. So if one were to just put all these wrong/fake/disinformation-spreaders into the same box (which has been stipulated to be a form of actively causing harm) and then prescribe a proper attack-style response (or take a "who cares if they're upset" approach), then you have the situation that I have been trying to advocate against, where those who came to their wrong beliefs by more innocent/less antagonistic means will be regarded the same as those who mean to cause a problem.

1 hour ago, macawake said:

Do you think that making the soil a less fertile breeding ground for disinformation, is making things worse?

I don't think that demonstrating disdain for people is making the soil a less fertile breeding ground, period.

1 hour ago, macawake said:

I personally think that nurses and other healthcare professionals who don’t step up to the plate and defend science when it’s being challenged by disinformation and lies, are the ones who are abdicating their responsibility. 

That's fine. I believe the crux of my comments has to do with the methods, not the act of challenging the information. I think I have been pretty consistent in that (?)

1 hour ago, macawake said:

Why do you think it’s a very small subset?  I think they are in at least the tens of millions range in the U.S. alone. 

I mean this most sincerely - - I am not sure how I would verify that? I made my statement based on a rough estimation involving my direct experiences and yes, I am using that as a sampling. I feel like I can only guess about people's exact beliefs and motives? My experience would not suggest that the majority of the unvaccinated are people who have [X] conspiracy theory belief which they believe in strongly enough that they will stick with it come hell or high water or death.

[toomuchbaloney]

I'm not changing the way I interact with members unless the moderators require it.  I don't care if others don't approve of my communication style when dealing with supposed health professionals who post disinformation or unfounded concerns about the vaccines.  I hope that the members sharing the dangerous opinions feel that they are being judged professionally for their public remarks.  I'm judging them.  

I hope that more and more people decide to get vaccinated as this Delta variant tests our health system.  

[Leader25, ASN, BSN, RN]

9 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

this Trump brand of conservative politics there is extreme ideology and all the tools used to manipulate cult members.  Social media and the nature of modern media elevates that messaging...often in unhelpful ways

Hold on  stop it.Leave Trump out of this otherwise you will also look misinformed and part of your own cult.Social media created the mess with their hysteria on one end and uncaring Governor Cuomo on the other refusing to protect the nursing home patients.

Florida has been different from the onset,have  many  relatives ,and seems like during the worst of the lockdown went out,visited each other ,had hairdressers go to their homes, even with immuno suppressed young ones and elderly,some travelled to eastern europe, South America, amazingly only  one got covid , a moderate case of it, recovered.All this risk taking scared the hell out of me, but they fared better, no mental issues from being isolated and scared by the media.Even allnurses is m-e-d-I-a.

[macawake, MSN]

6 hours ago, Leader25 said:

Hold on  stop it.Leave Trump out of this otherwise you will also look misinformed and part of your own cult.Social media created the mess with their hysteria on one end and uncaring Governor Cuomo on the other refusing to protect the nursing home patients.

I fail to see your logic. While I do agree that social media has had a huge impact on how a lot of people think and feel about the pandemic and the vaccines, it seems completely illogical for you to believe that one state’s Governor has had a greater impact than the nation’s former President.

Are you suggesting that Covid vaccines haven’t been politicized? 
 

If you look at the ten states with the highest vaccine uptake and compare it with the states with the lowest vaccine uptake, you really can’t see the partisan divide?

---

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html
 

6 hours ago, Leader25 said:

Florida has been different from the onset,have  many  relatives ,and seems like during the worst of the lockdown went out,visited each other ,had hairdressers go to their homes, even with immuno suppressed young ones and elderly,some travelled to eastern europe, South America, amazingly only  one got covid , a moderate case of it, recovered.All this risk taking scared the hell out of me, but they fared better, no mental issues from being isolated and scared by the media.Even allnurses is m-e-d-I-a.

As always, anecdotes aren’t very relevant. Do you have any study/analysis that you could link to? When you say no mental health issues, your n is likely very small. How do you compare to other states on the matter and what confounding factors might there be?  I am genuinely interested in all the research that we will see in the aftermath of the pandemic. Countries have had different pandemic strategies and I think there is a lot we can learn for when the next pandemic comes along. 

I don’t think that media is the correct label for AN. But since it is a nursing forum, many members do attempt to spread evidence-based information and try to identify and challenge pandemic-related disinformation.

[ladycody, BSN, RN]

14 hours ago, JKL33 said:

So, part of what I suspect is that there is a very small subset of people who actually have zero interest, believe the government is out to get them and destroy their way of life, and they will willingly take their position straight to the grave with no regrets if that's where it leads them.

I think there are a lot more people (than that amount ^) who are affected by the messages they hear but have not come to their conclusions independently and are not very secure in what they think they believe about it all. They've just been significantly affected and thrown into doubt and confusion by the stuff they hear from ^ that group. They've heard so much BS that they actually think they are playing it safe by not getting vaccinated. But they are not unreachable. I know for a fact that I have reached some of them.

I think that there is definitely a group of people that are in doubt...for a number of reasons...and that THAT group is reachable.  However I think those that believe the government is out to get them and that the vaccine is a tool for that purpose is not the VERY small subset that you think it is.  I actually think it's MUCH larger than most people realize...at least for now. They have just mostly (with a few exceptions) gone to ground and are not readily visible to those not scrolling through off beat social media sites. 

My area has the small subset you reference...but there are areas of the country that have a MUCH higher percentage of that group and those areas are likely to be a red hot Covid mess at some point...case in point Florida...and there are states even more at risk come fall/Winter. 

Admittedly just speculation...but I have been stunned by the tenacity of this groups belief system...and rational thought plays no part in it. Really...only time will tell.

 

[JKL33]

2 hours ago, ladycody said:

However I think those that believe the government is out to get them and that the vaccine is a tool for that purpose is not the VERY small subset that you think it is.  I actually think it's MUCH larger than most people realize...at least for now. They have just mostly (with a few exceptions) gone to ground and are not readily visible to those not scrolling through off beat social media sites. 

That's possible. I am only gauging by my IRL experiences. I don't know how I would know the truth of anything by trying to gauge what people say online. I have pretty much no experience with subversive online cultures/groups but my first thought would be that I don't have a good way of verifying who is saying anything.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

18 hours ago, JKL33 said:

So, part of what I suspect is that there is a very small subset of people who actually have zero interest, believe the government is out to get them and destroy their way of life, and they will willingly take their position straight to the grave with no regrets if that's where it leads them.

Unfortunately its not that small/insignificant; I follow the monthly Yahoo! News Covid Vaccination Survey because I think the data it provides is very interesting. 

The most recent one is here: https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vjfvegistz/20210715_yahoo_vaccine_tabs.pdf

30% of Republicans don't think Delta poses a serious risk to Americans.

28% of Republicans will never get vaccinated, and 10% are unsure. 

((Edited out wrong data))

[Juanito, BSN, MSN]

I have no eloquent words.  After a year and a half of this ish, I am done trying to convince anyone of the truth. Some folks prefer a lie. As a result, many people will die. 

[Juanito, BSN, MSN]

On 8/3/2021 at 7:07 AM, BostonFNP said:

I was talking with a “pro-disease” patient yesterday who lives in Florida the majority of the year;

I like this descriptor, pro-disease. Sounds about right.