Degree vs Diploma?

elkpark · Jun 21, 2009

I am another proud diploma grad ('84). Although I have gone on to complete a BSN and attended graduate school (the only reason I did the BSN, haha), the longer I've been in nursing the more I appreciate what an excellent education in nursing I got in my diploma program. We graduated much better prepared than either ADN or BSN grads do now, and I got a much better education in professionalism, leadership, critical thinking, legal/ethical issues, etc., than I did in the BSN completion program I attended, or offered in the ADN or BSN programs I've taught in over the years.

Personally, I feel strongly that we've "thrown the baby out with the bathwater" in nursing education.

kbm318 · Sep 21, 2009

I have a question for all of you. I have been debating on which type of education I want to get. I eventually want to obtain my BSN and go on to school but I have been in school 4 years and have not got in to any programs. I have recently discovered the diploma program and have highly been considering it. Lately I have been leaning towards getting either my associates degree or diploma and then working as I go back to school. I personally feel it would give me better experience and help me out through the rest of school. However, there aren't many school's around that offer the associate's degree program and there are a few diploma schools that are close. I have talked to a few people who recently got their BSN who agree with me that it would help to have more experience than they have but I'm not sure if it's the best reason to attend a diploma school. Does anyone know how difficult it would be for me to go back and get my BSN if I chose to attend a diploma school?

elkpark · Sep 22, 2009

I had no difficulty (as a diploma grad) in getting accepted to or completing the BSN completion I attended many years ago. As far as I know, most BSN completion programs are equally welcoming to both diploma and ADN grads.

The only caution I would offer about diploma programs is to make sure that most or all of the coursework will be standard college credits that you can transfer later to another school. I believe that is the case with nearly all diploma programs by now (I believe that all, or nearly all, of the diploma programs that have survived have established a relationship with a college that formally awards the credits), but it would be smart to make sure before you get involved.

nightnurse13 · Sep 22, 2009

I agree with most of the diploma nurses above, being a diploma nurse myself.

I was educated at Mohawk College in Ontario, where my diploma program was 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 yrs depending if you went thru the summer.

Now they have abolished that program combining it with the Mcmaster university program. Both schools are taught the same except in the 4 yr BScn they have another semester of theory.

Diploma nurses are just as qualified, if not more practically.

Both programs are great, just depends if you want to spend more money.

If you want to proceed into management, then get a degree.

kbm318 · Sep 24, 2009

Well I already have most of the classes you need other than the actually nursing classes. I have all my anatomy and microbiology as well as a nutrition, chemistry, math, biology, and a lot of other random usless classes. I'm a junior at the college I attend now so I have been taking all the classes I think I will end up needing. So hopefully the class transfer thing won't be an issue. But are you talking about all the pre req classes transferring being an issue or the actually nursing classes being an issue? I'm a little confused.

DoGoodThenGo · Sep 27, 2009

One thing have not seen mentioned, is the correct time frame of Diploma vs. ADN programs.

Yes, Diploma programs normally run two and one half to three years, and ADN programs about two to two and one half years, but there is a difference.

Most if not all diploma programs once one is accepted into the program you are a student nurse from day one. Diploma programs were famous for being arranged in such a way that one's nursing and core classes were taken in a logical manner and together, this allowed students to build foundations and things made "sense".

In contrast ADN programs do have the same nursing class hierarchy as diploma schools, core and pre-requisite classes often are scattered about by students for various reasons. Some take all non-nursing and core classes before applying for acceptance for instance. This can lead to students either forgetting information, or not seeing how things fit together. Case in point, some ADN programs requiring Med Dose Calc as part of the pre-nursing sequence. To me at least meds make much more sense if one is on the floors doing clinicals and have something to relate things to.

RNCEN · Oct 5, 2009

I am hoping to enter a strong diploma program beginning in the Fall of 2010. I already have a BA in Criminal Justice from a very good school, so I do not feel it is necessary to "retake" so many classes and spend a ton of $ on a BSN degree. I am hoping that the critical thinking skills I already possess will be of benefit. I am a second career student, and perhaps have different motivations than the first career students. I am not opposed to learning, in fact I love it. I hope to continue my education after working for a period of time. Perhaps there will be some tuition assistance at that point towards a Masters degree.

sallyrnrrt, ADN, RN · Oct 5, 2009

Hello,
I feel like there is a real unfortunate separation that exists these days between diploma and BSN nurses. I have been a nurse for 14 years and worked in critical care, home care, psychiatry, med surg, gyn. My experience even as a supervisor exists. I have a diploma. I don't feel that it is fair that my experience is not as valuble as having to have a Bachelors. I meet new graduates that seem to believe that they have a higher and more valuble level of knowlege. To me it seems sad and I speak for all nurses with diploma programs, who have worked so hard in a clinical setting for so many years and have not been given the opportunity as others with Bachelors. It is unfortunate because of the amount of hands on knowlege,contribution, and experience we have that is worth more than any Bachelors. I don't feel like spending $30,000, and two more year to obtain a Bachelors, which would be nothing more than a "REFRESHER" for me.
OK, so maybe I will end of having to do this because I won't have any choice if I need to meet the "standard level of acceptable education" required for me to obtain the jobs I want ie. management. In fact I would rather take an administrative, or leadership course or management course because I know at least I'd learn something new.
So I've said what i like to say. Peace to all!
It seems that they had abolished the diploma program from my town a few years ago, and only have BSN. This is fine except for the fact that nurses who had graduated prior from diploma were never grandfathered or given financial aid to complete to move on to a bachelors.

First KUDOS, well said, but I have been Coordinator of Nurse Clinicians in an ER, ER HN, CCU HN, and a CV-Gen med floor HN, and I am a 1972 diploma graduate..... Several of these positions were in metropolitian, teaching hospitals, with BSN nursing school affiliation....... I do not know, but it has not held me back, but that was then, and this is now.... I am sure the slant is a little different. I just never felt slided, but maybe it was just me...back then..... ??????:heartbeat

Annie295 · Jan 20, 2011

I need advice. I'm a 22 year old recent college graduate with a BA in Psychology. I have also taken all the Nursing pre-requisite courses and wanted to continue on for my RN. My intent was to go for a BSN, but i've been having a very difficult time getting into a nursing program. A hospital close to where I live offers a diploma program and I have been considering getting into that instead. Do you guys think that i'm making the right decision here? I am worried about not having alot of options once I graduate from the diploma program. Is this a good route to take for someone who has already gone to a 4 year college and holds a Bachelor's degree (not in Nursing however)?

Guest717236 · Jan 21, 2011

:banghead:

It is not a matter of how to get educated further! It is the notion that a diploma nurse with 14 years of experience who wrote the exact same nursing exam as a BSN nurse is made to believe that she/he is not qualified for a job. I resent that I am made to feel like i need to get a BSN which, won't teach me anything new. I know that this thread will probably upset anyone who has a BSN but personally it is a known fact that there are diploma nurses who are far more highly qualified and experienced but aren't given the same opportunity. My diploma has never stopped a manager from putting me in charge of a unit since I was 23 years old. It seems I had enough knowlege and skill to do that! So, why is it then that BSN is far more superior. I would like to challenge anyone who could convince me that I need a BSN. Not reasons that would help me advance in my profession. Rather, prove to me that a BSN will teach me anything that my diploma and experience has not already done.
thanks for listenning.

If you follow the BSN logic, why is it that nurses do not have to

obtain a BS in Business before obtaining a MBA? Business schools

recognize a BS in another field and allow BSN students to take prereq

then proceed to the MBA.

Having worked hard for both a diploma and BS in Business Management

it is of interest to me that nurses can skip the BS in business

and turn and demand those of us with a business degree in a management

setting to get a BSN. :banghead:

So I agree with the above post, nursing needs to give respect to

those diploma nurses with experience, and give the respect to a

BS in other field in the way those professional groups like business schools have given respect

to the BSN.

psychnurseforlife, agree with both of your posts! And you are not alone,

here is another diploma nurse posting to support your view.:anpom:

sallyrnrrt, ADN, RN · Jan 22, 2011

If you follow the BSN logic, why is it that nurses do not have to
obtain a BS in Business before obtaining a MBA? Business schools
recognize a BS in another field and allow BSN students to take prereq
then proceed to the MBA.
Having worked hard for both a diploma and BS in Business Management
it is of interest to me that nurses can skip the BS in business
and turn and demand those of us with a business degree in a management
setting to get a BSN.
So I agree with the above post, nursing needs to give respect to
those diploma nurses with experience, and give the respect to a
BS in other field in the way those professional groups like business schools have given respect
to the BSN.
psychnurseforlife, agree with both of your posts! And you are not alone,
here is another diploma nurse posting to support your view.:anpom:

this diploma nurse, with 38 yrs exp. has never been held back from administrative positions, as director of a ER

coord. nurse clinicians, ER supv. in a Wash. DC hospital etc........HN of a CV/MedSurg floor in the Texas Med. Ctr. and this was within the first 8 yrs of my graduation. A bacl. degree is just that a 4 yr. college degree. I have also been a clinical preceptor for BS new RN grads. in ICU............ I was simply a RN with a lot of clinical and administrative experience.

Guest717236 · Jan 22, 2011

this diploma nurse, with 38 yrs exp. has never been held back from administrative positions, as director of a ER
coord. nurse clinicians, ER supv. in a Wash. DC hospital etc........HN of a CV/MedSurg floor in the Texas Med. Ctr. and this was within the first 8 yrs of my graduation. A bacl. degree is just that a 4 yr. college degree. I have also been a clinical preceptor for BS new RN grads. in ICU............ I was simply a RN with a lot of clinical and administrative experience.

That is great. Unfortunately, that is not the case in many areas. Experience in clinical

and administrative experience is not honored here without the BSN.

It seems to vary by region and perhaps supply and demand.