Dead body vs. Live patient

[LPNweezy]

For those nurses who are seasoned in doing postmortem care, do you ever feel a spirit leave? Is there a spiritual difference between a living body and dead one? When i did postmortem care, for a short time after the death of a patient, it was like they weren't dead at all, and for some reason i felt like there presence could still hear me. after a bit, it changed, and it was just a body, and i was alone. anyone else know what i mean or am i psycho? :)

[Orange Tree]

I feel horrible when I need an IV pump and there's one in a room with someone who has recently passed away...

[Chrissybear]

i believe you! your not crazy!

[Love_2_Learn]

I understand the feeling you felt because I've felt it before too. I know of many nurses who like to crack a window open when a person passes away; they say they feel it helps the spirit leave the body easier. Maybe it's just symbolic though. Anyway, I've noticed the feeling and validate your experience. You are normal and apparently a little more sensitive to the mysteries of life and death.

[Darkfield]

I always think they're going to sit back up again; I dreamed that it happened once. And I always leave their gown on when I bag them. They look different dead, though. Deflated. Their faces look like melted wax. There is a definite difference, and I think you are not crazy when you say you can feel the spirit leaving the body. Who can say you are wrong? None of us have died and lived to tell the tale.

[nursing.mypassion]

When I attended a Hospice lecture, my lecturer who is a hospice nurse also told me her feelings of emptiness when the pt dies, you just notice that sth is not there. So, I believe that you are right. Also, if you look in the hospice nursing forum, you'll find that many other nurses feel the same way. I've never done post-mortem care, so I don't know. But I believe there exists such a thing.

[KJStarling]

I never felt this doing post mortem care, but after I attended organ procurement the line between life and death got a lot wider and vaguer... I mean the Person wasn't there anymore, but some of those parts: cells, organs, tissue were still alive... and they got taken out packaged up and put into other People...

Ever since then I've wondered when ARE we really dead...

Disturbing thought, right?

[LPNweezy]

I never felt this doing post mortem care, but after I attended organ procurement the line between life and death got a lot wider and vaguer... I mean the Person wasn't there anymore, but some of those parts: cells, organs, tissue were still alive... and they got taken out packaged up and put into other People…

Ever since then I’ve wondered when ARE we really dead…

Disturbing thought, right?

WOW! i completely %100 know what you mean. I was conflicted at becoming an organ donor for that exact reason! when does a person actually "die". when the brain stops? or when all the cells are dead? And if my organ is in someone else, am i still alive!???

weird, but i know what you mean :)

and i decided to become a donor anyways

[leslie :-D]

... I mean the Person wasn't there anymore, but some of those parts: cells, organs, tissue were still alive... and they got taken out packaged up and put into other People...

Ever since then I've wondered when ARE we really dead...

Disturbing thought, right?

or, to some, a very comforting thought...

that life is indeed, eternal.:)

leslie

[April, RN, BSN, RN]

Interesting topic. I do sort of know that feeling you are talking about after a patient dies. It feels cold and empty, but I'm pretty convinced that it's just human emotion. I will say though, that I also get that feeling sometimes when I have a patient who is actually still alive, but not "alive". They are still on the vent, vasopressors, CVVH, balloon pump, or whatever other life sustaining measures. They are doing poorly and clearly are not going to live, but withdrawal of life support has not been discussed/accepted/initiated. There have been times where at some point in my shift, I know there is no longer a spirit in that room... just a body.

[tiroka03, LPN]

I think a couple of things could be happening. First, it is kind of freaky the first couple deaths you see. So, I think just the newest of an experience that is never talked about or seen, stuff like nightmares in the movies, can cause your mind to think and feel all kinds of things.

But, I think there is more to it. On a couple of occasions, I have been in a room of a person, not immediately expected to die. I have just taken vitals, and talked with the person, had turned and then ..heard, or sensed, or I'm not sure what, turned around, and knew that person was seconds away from death. I just knew it somehow. It was distrubing to me. There are times I could even just walk up to a room, not even open the door, and know they were about to die-never having even met the person. I started to get a complex. But, I think I may have been feeling the added presence of an angel.

One time another nurse asked me to come look at one of his pts. I walked in and said hello, and listened to her lungs and looked at the vitals he did. Suddenly I felt it, I knew the pt was going to die real soon. I called the nurse out in the hallway and told him, what I felt. He got somber, and said, I knew you could feel these things, and we went back in the room. Her dtr was at her side. I told the person, listen what I am saying, it is very important, you need to tell your dtr you love her, and we are going to leave the room, and I want you to say whatever it is you need to say. I said nothing about dying, but I could already feel the extra presnce in the room. We stood outside, and soon the call bell came on, the person had died peacefully, and the dtr was grateful they had one last honest talk. She asked me, how did you know? I told her I felt an angel in the room. But, really I am not really sure what it was I felt or sensed. For a time, I was afraid I was the cause of the people who died, and even as I thought it, I knew that to be preposturous. Just because you feel that something, doesn't mean you are causing it. It just means you have an added gift of being able to not letting them die alone. It may very well have been their dying prayer to not be alone.

So, it doesn't surprise me to hear you are feeling the emptiness after a person's spirit has left their body. I don't think it is something you see, but something you feel. I don't mind telling you I don't like that feeling either. I wouldn't mind never being at a dying persons side again. But, I know I will, and need to learn to work through my feelings and be a support to that person.

I believe your given a gift, and how you use it is up to you. Your gentle words or a quick prayer, can go a long way to comfort a person who is in the active process of death.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

Have never quite felt that the spirit was still hanging around.

I am more surprised at the many people who do not realize that the spirit has been long gone on a vent patient, very easy for ME to tell.

You sound kind and sensitive. I am sorry for the rude comments you received. Some people are mean, and mean people suck!

[Old.Timer]

Yes, I have experienced such feelings on numerous occasions. For me, it has always occured shortly before the person was physically dead or right at the time of death. When I do sense it, it is incredibly strong.