Cry me a river...?

[Jedrnurse]

I have been in healthcare for a long time (since just out of high school) in one form or another. There's a trend I've noticed with a lot of posts that I'm wondering if it's new, or if I've just happened to miss it over the decades.

So many people post about crying at work, before work, after work, well, you get the picture. Are things really that bad, or are people less "resilient" (to use a recent buzzword)?

[Oldmahubbard]

I am a Psych NP. I have occasionally gotten tearful with a patient in empathy. For the loss of a child, as an example. Patients that lost relatives on 9/11/01.

I have also been in grossly toxic work environments. I moved along. Nobody saw me cry.

Counseling and taking medication for anxiety and depression were also quite helpful in that context.

[daverika]

I’ve been a nurse for 38 years, and many things have broken my heart, but I can usually hold it together. Here are 4 instances when the tears came before I could leave the floor. 18 year old trauma pt, head injury improving. Sudden bleed or swelling from unknown cause, brain death insued. The gut wrenching, primal wail of her mother when she was told her daughter would not survive, echoing throughout the unit. Something I cannot forget. The 4 year old shot through the wall of his home back in the gang wars of the 90’s. His mother sobbing and hanging on to his pajama footie feet while the team futilely tried to save his life. My co workers 2 and a half year old daughter, brought into our adult unit to have life support withdrawn after a tragic accident. The overwhelming grief of our entire unit. And just last week holding it together and comforting/ supporting a roomful of adults keeping vigil at the dying Grandma’s bedside. It was the 9 year old grandson sobbing uncontrollably right after she passed away that had me stepping out of the room to swallow my own tears and try to get it together to complete the mission. So there. Doesn’t matter how old, how experienced, how tough you are. Some things will just break your heart.

[Jedrnurse, BSN, RN]

8 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I think the OP is talking about one kind of crying and many posters about another kind.

There's a difference when you're crying because you have feelings towards your patients. Death is an emotional process, and humans have a tendency to be empathetic and feel the emotions of those nearby. Watching a family hold the body of their aged patriarch (or newborn, or spouse or any human they loved) is an emotional time. Sure, most of the times nurses are able to steel their emotions and "do their job". Other times, something will pull the heartstrings of a nurse, and tears may happen, a hug even.

Other times, on the other hand, I've watched some new nurses just cry (or even faint) with just learning the job. They had difficulty handling orientation. They cry from the amount of work/charting/whatever. This is stress crying. Many nurses have posted about them. They cry before going to work, after they come home, in the bathroom right before a shift, in the break room during a shift. Generally, negative reactions to stress aren't helpful. They can show up in various unhealthy ways including anger, overeating and depression (as well as crying). People react poorly to stress in different ways, and perhaps we're just more "judgy" with tears because we can see them and say "I'd never do that". Meanwhile, there's plenty of people with other poor reactions to stress, like drinking and being downright cynical.

I think it would be important for people to learn how to deal with stress constructively. Sorry, no suggestions here.

You're exactly right. I wasn't talking about tragic event/empathic crying.

[xcracer]

Possibly differences in generations? From Boomers, Gen X and now Millennials in the workplace. Also there seems to be an increase in patients feeling so entitled and disrespectful.

[River&MountainRN, ADN, RN]

The only time I've "stress cried" on the job was Day 4 of being a brand new nurse, my patient was rapidly going downhill (I knew it, she knew it, the support staff knew it, AND the hard*ss MD knew it and had actually complimented me on catching it while he was giving me orders), and my preceptor...REFUSED to help me. I had the MD orders ready to go, but didn't know where the necessary supplies were to follow through on the orders, nor had I EVER done the procedure. The CNAs told me where the supplies should be but they weren't there!!!!!!! It was the overnight shift and my preceptor was also the house supervisor; it was just the two of us RNs on the unit for 42 subacute patients. She kept blowing me off, then screaming at me for being emotional and incompetent, until she went to the supply closet for a different reason and SAW, plain and simple, that the necessary supplies were, in fact, NOT there. Only SHE had the keys to go down to the basement to central supply, which she did, threw the supplies at me, and told me to go do it myself. I did, the patient survived, and I resigned soon after, since my preceptor didn't want to precept me, she was the only consistent overnight RN there at the moment (she had chased off all the other new hires, come to find out), the only resource nurse available to me, and I knew that I didn't know what I didn't know and would be unsafe on that floor.

[FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN]

19 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I think the OP is talking about one kind of crying and many posters about another kind.

There's a difference when you're crying because you have feelings towards your patients. Death is an emotional process, and humans have a tendency to be empathetic and feel the emotions of those nearby. Watching a family hold the body of their aged patriarch (or newborn, or spouse or any human they loved) is an emotional time. Sure, most of the times nurses are able to steel their emotions and "do their job". Other times, something will pull the heartstrings of a nurse, and tears may happen, a hug even.

Other times, on the other hand, I've watched some new nurses just cry (or even faint) with just learning the job. They had difficulty handling orientation. They cry from the amount of work/charting/whatever. This is stress crying. Many nurses have posted about them. They cry before going to work, after they come home, in the bathroom right before a shift, in the break room during a shift. Generally, negative reactions to stress aren't helpful. They can show up in various unhealthy ways including anger, overeating and depression (as well as crying). People react poorly to stress in different ways, and perhaps we're just more "judgy" with tears because we can see them and say "I'd never do that". Meanwhile, there's plenty of people with other poor reactions to stress, like drinking and being downright cynical.

I think it would be important for people to learn how to deal with stress constructively. Sorry, no suggestions here.

Crying is not a "negative reaction to stress" or what I would call poor coping. Neither is anger. Anger is a normal emotion. There are many positive ways to express anger such as standing up for yourself or others, saying no, etc.

Drinking, drugging, cutting oneself, breaking things, hitting others--these are poor coping. If crying is in the same category, then the intolerance and emotional competence in the environment is part of the problem.

[JKL33]

1 hour ago, FolksBtrippin said:

Crying is not a "negative reaction to stress" or what I would call poor coping. Neither is anger. Anger is a normal emotion. There are many positive ways to express anger such as standing up for yourself or others, saying no, etc.

Drinking, drugging, cutting oneself, breaking things, hitting others--these are poor coping. If crying is in the same category, then the intolerance and emotional competence in the environment is part of the problem.

OTOH, crying can also be a bit of a problem compared to other reactions because people tend to be sympathetic to it, if you think about it.

Let's say a preceptor counsels an orientee that (for example), "Next time, we need to check _____ before [giving that med/doing that thing]."

If you are someone who doesn't like hearing that you have done something wrong, and you feel angry and start ranting about what a witch your preceptor is because of this thing s/he said - people very well may see that you're the one with the problem.

If your reaction is waterworks and walking around barely able to collect yourself because of "things [your] preceptor is saying," (or even if you just say, "my preceptor just talked to me about....") you're quite likely to garner at least some degree of sympathy even though what you did was 100% wrong - with people assuming that something mean must have been said merely by the fact that you are crying (since a large number of people generally do not cry upon hearing something like that).

That's the way it goes, if you review life experiences:

Two people have an interaction and one of them ends up ranting >> people look askance at the ranter and tend to distance themselves a little.

Two people have an interaction and one of them ends up crying >> One of them "made" the other cry and people line up to hear of the drama of what evil unfair thing must've been said to cause this.

[Jedrnurse, BSN, RN]

23 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

OTOH, crying can also be a bit of a problem compared to other reactions because people tend to be sympathetic to it, if you think about it.

Let's say a preceptor counsels an orientee that (for example), "Next time, we need to check _____ before [giving that med/doing that thing]."

If you are someone who doesn't like hearing that you have done something wrong, and you feel angry and start ranting about what a witch your preceptor is because of this thing s/he said - people very well may see that you're the one with the problem.

If your reaction is waterworks and walking around barely able to collect yourself because of "things [your] preceptor is saying," (or even if you just say, "my preceptor just talked to me about....") you're quite likely to garner at least some degree of sympathy even though what you did was 100% wrong - with people assuming that something mean must have been said merely by the fact that you are crying (since a large number of people generally do not cry upon hearing something like that).

That's the way it goes, if you review life experiences:

Two people have an interaction and one of them ends up ranting >> people look askance at the ranter and tend to distance themselves a little.

Two people have an interaction and one of them ends up crying >> One of them "made" the other cry and people line up to hear of the drama of what evil unfair thing must've been said to cause this.

So, some crying as a form of manipulation. Interesting...

[JKL33]

Even if it is a natural reaction to a stressor and not intentionally manipulative, it is likely that in our particular environment there will be be someone around who will respond more favorably to it than most people respond to angry outbursts.

[FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN]

5 hours ago, JKL33 said:

OTOH, crying can also be a bit of a problem compared to other reactions because people tend to be sympathetic to it, if you think about it.

Let's say a preceptor counsels an orientee that (for example), "Next time, we need to check _____ before [giving that med/doing that thing]."

If you are someone who doesn't like hearing that you have done something wrong, and you feel angry and start ranting about what a witch your preceptor is because of this thing s/he said - people very well may see that you're the one with the problem.

If your reaction is waterworks and walking around barely able to collect yourself because of "things [your] preceptor is saying," (or even if you just say, "my preceptor just talked to me about....") you're quite likely to garner at least some degree of sympathy even though what you did was 100% wrong - with people assuming that something mean must have been said merely by the fact that you are crying (since a large number of people generally do not cry upon hearing something like that).

That's the way it goes, if you review life experiences:

Two people have an interaction and one of them ends up ranting >> people look askance at the ranter and tend to distance themselves a little.

Two people have an interaction and one of them ends up crying >> One of them "made" the other cry and people line up to hear of the drama of what evil unfair thing must've been said to cause this.

You're lumping in poor behaviors with crying.

Talking smack about the preceptor is the problem in your example. Not the crying. Talking snack is also the manipulation, not the crying.

Also, venting about a person to another person is a problem behavior. Deal with the person you have a problem with, don't talk snack whether you're angry or sad about it.

If you're angry, stand up for yourself or someone else. If you're overwhelmed, get help.

Emotions are cues to problems. It's not healthy to ignore them and it's also not healthy to let them fuel bad behavior.

In other words, the gossiping is the problem in both situations.

[MJ 0990]

I think this is just like anything else. With the internet and social media things are talked about more, more information is shared (even TMI) and it’s both good and bad. Things that have always happened can seem like it’s just a recent thing

Food for thought on that..Its crazy but I’ve read multiple studies that we actually live in the safest time in history (seems impossible right!?) It doesn’t seem that way because it’s the most reported time in history.

[JKL33]

2 hours ago, FolksBtrippin said:

In other words, the gossiping is the problem in both situations.

I don't mean this in an argumentative way, but *I* wasn't saying anything about manipulation. Manipulation was mentioned in response to what I said, and I promptly clarified. I wasn't even trying to convey that the crier was gossiping/talking smack, but simply that someone is going to ask if they're okay, and they might truthfully reply.

I was merely pointing out that if someone's reaction happens to be crying (as opposed to other visibly-upset reactions), that can become problematic because there are usually people around who are sympathetic to that than other reactions, and who are willing to assume that someone has done something which evoked that reaction. And, in my example, if the person crying is asked what's wrong, they may innocently say, "so-and-so talked to me about ________" and others will easily assume that so-and-so didn't do it very nicely - as evidenced by someone crying.

But, now that you mention it, various emotional reactions can also be used manipulatively if someone is so inclined.