It's only fair to point out that Biden is also racist AF. (AF= as ... can't be mentioned on AN, because we're nurses and we don't swear, ever).
The Omicron variant has so far been detected in South Africa, Botswana, Israel, Belgium, Hong Kong, UK, Germany, Italy, and Czechia. But of those countries the US has implemented travel bans on only two of those countries; South Africa and Botswana. In addition to those two, travel bans have been enacted for eSwatini, Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, and Zimbabwe, even though no cases of Omicron have been detected there.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
11 minutes ago, Beerman said:
He said one day it was too soon to say, and literally the next day said all is good if you want to gather for the holidays. Other then the backlash he heard, what other emerging data do you suppose there was?
Oh my. What data might you guess that he is briefed on? What data does your unnamed but preferred expert base his/her opinion upon?
Yes, I understand that you have a special standard for Dr Fauci's statements and you don't trust him at all. I'm still wondering who you would recommend that people listen to instead of Fauci and explain how their recommendations differ from Fauci's. What is your expert's opinion on gathering over the holidays?
Oh my. What data might you guess that he is briefed on? What data does your unnamed but preferred expert base his/her opinion upon?
In this particular case, the data he gathered was comments from Twitter. facebook, cable news opinion shows, etc.
I've told you more than once I don't have one preferred expert. Obviously, I listen to Fauci too.
But he certainly has proved to not be the one expert who should guide us. He is a attention seeking bureaucrat. You don't keep your job as a unelected politician in DC for decades without learning to change with with political winds and to look out for yourself. That should be taken into consideration when he speaks.
Nah...we are approaching the 3rd year of a global pandemic...anyone who is talking about fear mongering relative to new variant warnings is an idiot committed to propaganda rather than critical thought or sound reasoning.
Would it be more correct to refer to this as an endemic rather than pandemic at this point? COIVD is not going to be eradicated via vaccine as polio, small pox, etc. It has more in common with endemic influenza. To think we are going to vaccinate our way out is wishful thinking. We need to stop that message and change it to the message of the flu vax, shingles vax etc. We want you vaccinated to protect oneself from the effects of the virus. We also need transparency in the governmental agencies charged with providing data to the general public. If we want max participation in vaccinating programs, we need honesty, not hysteria and hypocrisy. As an example, saying it is an urgent requirement for a 20 something with no comorbidities to have a booster who has already had two doses of a vaccine. Where is the data to support that? Reality would say we need to send those extra dose to places in need of their first and second dose. Those 20 somethings who are obese, have hypertension, and other risk factors, well perhaps they need the booster. What is sad is we get very little of that kind of discussion by the supposed "experts". Clearly the messaging needs to be looked at in order to effectively manage the issue going foreword. I find these three gentlemen, (and each a physician: Vinay Prasad MD MPH is a practicing hematologist-oncologist and Associate Professor in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of California San Francisco, Dr. Mary Makary is a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and Bloomberg School of Public Health, and Dr. Zubin Damania) to bring reasonable discussion to the table. Vaccine proponents all, they also seek clear messaging. Many on here will probably agree with somethings they have to say and also disagree with a few. I hope this post is allowed to be seen. The candid discussion on the video should be thought provoking. Also some laughter along the way.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, Beerman said:
In this particular case, the data he gathered was comments from Twitter. facebook, cable news opinion shows, etc.
I've told you more than once I don't have one preferred expert. Obviously, I listen to Fauci too.
But he certainly has proved to not be the one expert who should guide us. He is a attention seeking bureaucrat. You don't keep your job as a unelected politician in DC for decades without learning to change with with political winds and to look out for yourself. That should be taken into consideration when he speaks.
But you haven't told me where you are getting guidance that is different from Fauci's guidance.
You think Fauci has proved that he isn't worthy of his position in our infectious disease and public health sphere. Does the Director of NIH share that opinion of Fauci? Can you share some expert opinion or commentary which does share that perspective...that rather than being an example of a remarkable and valued expert in his field, Fauci is an "attention seeking bureaucrat"? That's the type of comments that politicians like Tom Cotton and Ted Cruz make to criticize Fauci. I count those as politically motivated and empty accusations with nothing but feelings to back them up. Those fellows are pandering to a voting base. What's your objective in using that language?
Did I say that I believe that anyone is never wrong or are you changing the argument. You don't say that Fauci was wrong, you said that he was a deliberate liar with no credibility when it came to covid, right? Now all of a sudden it's not a matter of lying for you, it's a matter of not getting something right...oh yeah...and there's that untruthful part again. Because you are quite convinced that if anyone was untruthful about covid in 2020 it was surely Fauci...right?
Yes. You've said that you don't trust or need Fauci (presumably because you believe he is a liar that got things wrong and ruined his credibility) yet you just can't specify who you get covid guidance from specifically, since you don't trust Fauci, and you can't specify how the information that you get from sources other than Fauci is different from Fauci's guidance.
Gosh...don't you think that emerging data and evidence from a new variant of a novel virus is the primary driver of evolving scientific opinion? Why do you think that an approval rating would matter to Fauci? What is the other expert telling you about omicron and mitigation strategies that are different from Fauci?
14 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:
No, I wasn't responding to Tweety. I'm trying to get you to be specific.
Deliberate obfuscation to appease the ideology gods. It's a device Beerman can't seem to control even when he's been called on it multiple times. Those of us who call him out for citing Ben Shapiro as a news source aren't as monolithic in our thinking as the followers of Ben Shapiro. But he continues to convince the ether that we are.
Deliberate obfuscation to appease the ideology gods. It's a device Beerman can't seem to control even when he's been called on it multiple times. Those of us who call him out for citing Ben Shapiro as a news source aren't as monolithic in our thinking as the followers of Ben Shapiro. But he continues to convince the ether that we are.
Since this thread is about the Omicron variant, thought I would add something very relevant. I would think anyone who values science and intellect over emotion would strongly consider what these distinguished medical professionals have to say in the editorial I am linking. Definitely worthy of consideration. The authors are:
Dr. Marion Gruber is the former director of the Food and Drug Administration's Office of Vaccines Research and Review.
Dr. Philip R. Krause is former deputy director of the Food and Drug Administration's Office of Vaccines Research and Review.
Dr. Paul A. Offit is a professor of pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
"We don’t need universal booster shots. We need to reach the unvaccinated."
You don't have any interest in research, or nursing, learning, or honest debate. There are no words when someone starts squawking about liberals liberals after the mention of WSJ and The Economist. You simply have no interest in having honest apolitical discussion or debate about NURSING. This isn't a political site.
When I'm on the floor, or working in any capacity as a nurse, my politics get left at home. It's about the science and reliable resources for me. And my patients first and foremost. I ask myself, what we have done in nursing school? What is the foundation of my training. Granted, I have a Master's, but any nurse remembers having to do research papers in school, not just at the graduate level. And even then, sometimes even a reliable source may print something questionable...small n, manipulated p... but generally we do the best we can with reliable sources. I'm not pro-choice, or pro-life, or left or right...I'm just a dude working to save my patients and get them healthy.
If you feel so passionately about politics, that's fine. This isn't the place for that. If you have more passion for politics than science and nursing, I would honestly say, leave nursing and get a job in politics, or go back to school and study polisci. It's a fun degree. But it doesn't have a place here. Science shouldn't be infiltrated by either political party or left or right politics. Our practice should be guided by EBP, RCTs, and then lower quality studies (cohort, case-control, cross-sectional, etc.)...not random dude's thoughts on a website who agrees with our politics.
Show us where you are putting your politics aside and letting the science guide your clincial practice. Are you a nurse?
This is a political forum on a nursing site...??? So how not the place?
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN said:
Since this thread is about the Omicron variant, thought I would add something very relevant. I would think anyone who values science and intellect over emotion would strongly consider what these distinguished medical professionals have to say in the editorial I am linking. Definitely worthy of consideration. The authors are:
Dr. Marion Gruber is the former director of the Food and Drug Administration's Office of Vaccines Research and Review.
Dr. Philip R. Krause is former deputy director of the Food and Drug Administration's Office of Vaccines Research and Review.
Dr. Paul A. Offit is a professor of pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
"We don’t need universal booster shots. We need to reach the unvaccinated."
Our views are not as far from the official position as they may seem. For mRNA vaccines, based on advice from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, the CDC on Nov. 19 initially issued the fairly tepid recommendation that aduls 18 to 49 “may” receive a booster, and those over 50 “should” receive a booster. (It put both groups in the “should” category Monday, without further outside advice.)
Outside of mandates and straightforward messaging how do we reach the unvaccinated?
Since this thread is about the Omicron variant, thought I would add something very relevant. I would think anyone who values science and intellect over emotion would strongly consider what these distinguished medical professionals have to say in the editorial I am linking. Definitely worthy of consideration. The authors are:
Dr. Marion Gruber is the former director of the Food and Drug Administration's Office of Vaccines Research and Review.
Dr. Philip R. Krause is former deputy director of the Food and Drug Administration's Office of Vaccines Research and Review.
Dr. Paul A. Offit is a professor of pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
"We don’t need universal booster shots. We need to reach the unvaccinated."
I wasn't referring to your articles. Yes, I agree we need to reach more of the unvaccinated, but until the morons get vaccinated, I will take the booster and avoid the unvaccinated as much as possible. At some point we will have to consider the unboostered as unvaccinated. I don't have the answer to when that time is and neither does anyone else. By the time that omicron is studied and some answers are found, the next varient will be here. If Dr. Offit wants to elaborate how we go about changing the minds of the vaccine resistant, I'd love to hear it. The argument is sensible but I don't know if we can change the minds of the unreasonable.
Deliberate obfuscation to appease the ideology gods. It's a device Beerman can't seem to control even when he's been called on it multiple times. Those of us who call him out for citing Ben Shapiro as a news source aren't as monolithic in our thinking as the followers of Ben Shapiro. But he continues to convince the ether that we are.
Your side can't help but to get personal.. disparage and discredit....that's your only desperate strategy since you can't debate the issues.
What is a "follower" of Ben Shapiro? I've never cited him as a news source. I post opinions from his site at times, many if not most are not even written by him.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
14 minutes ago, Beerman said:
Your side can't help but to get personal.. disparage and discredit....that's your only desperate strategy since you can't debate the issues.
What is a "follower" of Ben Shapiro? I've never cited him as a news source. I post opinions from his site at times, many if not most are not even written by him.
It's not personal to take note of your tactic of obfuscation, it's simply an observation. I'd like to debate the issues but you are having trouble telling us who you rely upon for covid guidance since you think Fauci is an attention seeking bureaucrat who shouldn't be in his position because of damaged credibility. You also haven't debated the substantive differences in that guidance that you seek from those other unnamed sources. That makes it really difficult to have any kind of a debate or discussion with you. It seems like your idea of debate is for you to make inflammatory statements or claims, support them only with media which is known for being divisive, biased and inaccurate, refuse to answer questions about your claims and statements, change the focus of the discussion and then whine about how mean liberal are.
You are a follower of Ben Shapiro, IMV. His platform is one of your favorite media outlets to cite in these threads. Would you agree that you frequently source his content?
That makes it really difficult to have any kind of a debate or discussion with you.
Yes, you've mentioned that many times over the past few years. Yet, it seems engaging me and throwing insults my way is one of your main ways to get a dopamine fix in your retirement years.
Its sad, really.
24 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:
Youare a follower of Ben Shapiro, IMV. His platform is one of your favorite media outlets to cite in these threads. Would you agree that you frequently source his content?
toomuchbaloney
16,029 Posts
Oh my. What data might you guess that he is briefed on? What data does your unnamed but preferred expert base his/her opinion upon?
Yes, I understand that you have a special standard for Dr Fauci's statements and you don't trust him at all. I'm still wondering who you would recommend that people listen to instead of Fauci and explain how their recommendations differ from Fauci's. What is your expert's opinion on gathering over the holidays?