Could masks be another vector?

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Consider that when people go about their daily lives they put their hands on everything in their environment; door handles, gas pumps, counter tops, store shelves, etcetera. 

And I notice people constantly touching and readjusting their masks. Some people do it almost subconsciously.

I notice people wearing everything from flimsy & porous cloth masks, to bandanas and surgical masks. I even saw a guy with a full beard wearing an ill fitting N-95 the other day.

It stands to reason that when people constantly touch their masks they transfer germs to the mask with their dirty hands, and subsequently inhale the germs. 

The average size of a COVID-19 virus  particulate is approximately 0.125 Micron or 125 nanometers in diameter so various face coverings provide different levels of protection and some not at all.

In my opinion, masks may help, especially the immunocompromised. But they also give people a false sense of protection, and at worst, may be another vector. 

We've been masking for almost eight months and we continue to see new cases daily.

Thoughts?

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Yes I agree with you. Your thinking is right on target. Mandatory masks in most places and now they say let's just shutdown again for only a few weeks to slow the spread. Meanwhile, businesses are closing permanently because of new "safety" regulations. It's just ridiculous. The masks have no effect on anything in healthy individuals. In fact, there has been data out that says masks definitely harbor bacteria and can lead to bacterial infections. Such as in 1918 when they also mandated masks, most people who died were infected with bacterial pneumonia. 

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10 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

The masks have no effect on anything in healthy individuals. In fact, there has been data out that says masks definitely harbor bacteria and can lead to bacterial infections. Such as in 1918 when they also mandated masks, most people who died were infected with bacterial pneumonia. 

There is substantial statistical evidence that masks are beneficial. Even the pandemic of 1918 provided some good comparative situations of cities who handled it differently (look up St. Louis compared to Philadelphia).

I agree with your comment about healthy individuals but the thing is, we don't know who's actually healthy. ha. Obviously there are asymptomatic carriers, for one thing, but then there are countless people out there who are mildly symptomatic and still going about their daily lives.

Like pretty much everything in life, it's a risks vs benefits situation, and masks are doing far more to mitigate the spread of covid then they are causing other diseases. If you have evidence otherwise, I'm interested in seeing it.

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On 11/28/2020 at 12:20 PM, DaveMHA-RN said:

The average size of a COVID-19 virus  particulate is approximately 0.125 Micron or 125 nanometers in diameter so various face coverings provide different levels of protection and some not at all.

First of all, the viral size doesn't really matter at all because they can only move around and travel to new hosts via droplets, which are substantially bigger than the virus itself. Droplet size matters because larger droplets can contain bigger viral loads, but are easier to filter. But no viruses are off flying around by themselves with no bigger "vehicle" carrying them.

In my opinion, the benefits of collective mask wearing is much more substantial and important than the small risk of the mask acting as vector for other pathogens. I have yet to see any evidence that masks are causing other health issues, but if you have then please share. It's a benefits vs risk situation (like everything in life) and all evidence so far points to benefits outweighing the risks.

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Specializes in Peds ED.

So, first of all, vectors apply to living things that spread disease. Non-living things that can facilitate disease spread are fomites. 

Secondly, there is evidence that asymptomatic COVID+ individuals can be contagious, and there's even MORE evidence that presymptomatic COVID+ people can be very contagious. And I'm sure we've all seen mildly symptomatic individuals deny the potential to be infectious to others and go about their business as usual.

Look, there's tons of evidence that universal mask use reduces community spread. The person you saw using their N95 incorrectly was still shielding others from their droplets. The people touching their faces and adjusting their masks are still shielding others from their droplets even though they're not protecting their own health as well as they could. 

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Controlling a respiratory infection at source using a face mask is a well-established strategy. For example, symptomatic patients with cough or sneezing are generally advised to put on a face mask, and this applies equally to patients with pulmonary tuberculosis (airborne transmission) and influenza (predominantly droplet-transmitted). With the large number of asymptomatic patients unaware of their own infection [1, 2], the comparable viral load in their upper respiratory tract [3], droplet and aerosol dispersion even during talking and breathing [6], and prolonged viral viability outside our body [7], we strongly advocate universal use of face masks as a means of source control in public places during the COVID-19 pandemic. Extreme forms of social distancing are not sustainable, and complete lockdown of cities or even whole countries is devastating to the economy. Universal masking in public complements social distancing and hand hygiene in containing or slowing down the otherwise exponential growth of the pandemic. Universal masking protects against cross-transmission through unavoidable person-to-person contact during the lockdown and reduces the risk for resurgence during relaxation of social distancing measures.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191114/

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The study suggests that community mask use by well people could be beneficial, particularly for COVID-19, where transmission may be pre-symptomatic. The studies of masks as source control also suggest a benefit, and may be important during the COVID-19 pandemic in universal community face mask use as well as in health care settings. Trials in healthcare workers support the use of respirators continuously during a shift. This may prevent health worker infections and deaths from COVID-19, as aerosolisation in the hospital setting has been documented.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

 

 

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Sounds like you all are drinking the mask cool aid for sure. You have to understand that anytime a study comes out that contradicts the narrative of this medical technocracy, it is immediately removed by the people in control who do not want the public to have that information. Thinking logically, if the whole nation has been wearing a damn mask since March, how can you explain the "spike" or third "wave" that we are apparently going through (according to them).?? Isn't it clear that masking anywhere and everwhere is clearly not effective in reducing transmission?

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Specializes in clinic nurse.

Is there a way to fact check these original comments? This does not pass the smell test, so to speak, and seems more than anything to be politically motivated.

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7 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

You have to understand that anytime a study comes out that contradicts the narrative of this medical technocracy, it is immediately removed by the people in control who do not want the public to have that information.

You actually believe that studies are ”removed”? That’s strange because I can easily find studies that point in different directions when it comes to the ability of masks reducing transmission. It’s not like we have a a large number of RCTs showing that masking is the magic bullet, is it? We’re still gathering evidence and I personally believe that masks are only one ”prong” of a multipronged strategy. Social, or rather physical distancing, is at least as important. Good hand hygiene and staying at home/isolating when sick is also paramount. 

Why, according to you, do the people ”in control” not want the public to have access to research? 

9 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

Thinking logically, if the whole nation has been wearing a damn mask since March, how can you explain the "spike" or third "wave" that we are apparently going through (according to them).??

Well thinking logically, has the whole nation really been wearing a mask since March whenever they’ve been anywhere near other people? It’s my impression that’s pretty far from reality. Am I wrong? 

Do you not agree that you’re experiencing a surge/wave/spike (label it whatever you will) in infections? Who are the ”them” you refer to?

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Specializes in Peds ED.
34 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:

Sounds like you all are drinking the mask cool aid for sure. You have to understand that anytime a study comes out that contradicts the narrative of this medical technocracy, it is immediately removed by the people in control who do not want the public to have that information. Thinking logically, if the whole nation has been wearing a damn mask since March, how can you explain the "spike" or third "wave" that we are apparently going through (according to them).?? Isn't it clear that masking anywhere and everwhere is clearly not effective in reducing transmission?

The whole nation hasn’t been wearing a mask and the outbreak is worse is areas where there aren’t mask mandates. How do you “remove a study” anyway? These science black ops people can wipe the internet?

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On 11/28/2020 at 12:20 PM, DaveMHA-RN said:

Consider that when people go about their daily lives they put their hands on everything in their environment; door handles, gas pumps, counter tops, store shelves, etcetera. 

And I notice people constantly touching and readjusting their masks. Some people do it almost subconsciously.

I notice people wearing everything from flimsy & porous cloth masks, to bandanas and surgical masks. I even saw a guy with a full beard wearing an ill fitting N-95 the other day.

It stands to reason that when people constantly touch their masks they transfer germs to the mask with their dirty hands, and subsequently inhale the germs. 

The average size of a COVID-19 virus  particulate is approximately 0.125 Micron or 125 nanometers in diameter so various face coverings provide different levels of protection and some not at all.

In my opinion, masks may help, especially the immunocompromised. But they also give people a false sense of protection, and at worst, may be another vector. 

We've been masking for almost eight months and we continue to see new cases daily.

Thoughts?

 

Is this a serious question, from a nurse, whether wearing masks will help reduce virus transmission?

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On 11/29/2020 at 11:22 AM, macawake said:

Well thinking logically, has the whole nation really been wearing a mask since March whenever they’ve been anywhere near other people? It’s my impression that’s pretty far from reality. Am I wrong? 

Do you not agree that you’re experiencing a surge/wave/spike (label it whatever you will) in infections? Who are the ”them” you refer to?

A spike in infections? No. The cases are what they are reporting are increasing but the PCR test is amped up to 40x rather than 34-35, yielding many false positives. The PCR test was not designed to be used on asymptomatic people. With that being said, as far as health studies being removed or censored, John's Hopkins just did remove a study that showed the overall amount of deaths in the U.S. has been constant over the last several months. Also, it showed the deaths due to heart disease, diabetes, and cancer all decreased. The simple explanation is those deaths being attributed to Covid are actually the heart disease, diabetes, and cancer deaths that are just being put in a different category. Understand?$$$

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Specializes in Peds ED.
2 hours ago, Jack Peace said:

A spike in infections? No. The cases are what they are reporting are increasing but the PCR test is amped up to 40x rather than 34-35, yielding many false positives. The PCR test was not designed to be used on asymptomatic people. With that being said, as far as health studies being removed or censored, John's Hopkins just did remove a study that showed the overall amount of deaths in the U.S. has been constant over the last several months. Also, it showed the deaths due to heart disease, diabetes, and cancer all decreased. The simple explanation is those deaths being attributed to Covid are actually the heart disease, diabetes, and cancer deaths that are just being put in a different category. Understand?$$$

PCR can’t give false positives. Amplification doesn’t create things that aren’t there, it increases the sensitivity of the test to detect what IS there. There aren’t standards on amplification cycles so 34-35 isn’t necessarily ideal. 

Johns Hopkins removed a study from where? Are you talking about a newsletter article that’s been removed from their site or an actual study that has been disappeared?

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