Concerned mother..question about clinicals

[caltripp]

My 16 year old high school daughter is thinking about going into nursing so she signed up for the CNA course offered at the local technical college which she also gets class credit for. At the time we signed her up, I really didn't know what a CNA did, but the more I research, the more I am worried about her taking this course.

It's the clinicals that I am worried about. She will be working in a nursing home, helping the regular nurses there care for the elderly, right? The part I am worried about with that is the "assist in dressing and bathing". In clinicals, can the nurses have her bathe a naked man including washing his genital area? Or have her change a Depends undergarment and have to clean the genial area of an old man?

For her to have to do that at 18, I wouldn't have as much problem with it. At 18 your considered an adult. But I don't want her doing that sort of thing at 16.

Please let me know.

Thanks!

[Cul2]

It's interesting how the focus here is on just one side of the issue. If patient autonomy has any significance at all, if individual values and differences count, if respect and dignity matter, than the patient perspective is part of any question of this nature. Patients aren't potted plants sitting in the corner of the room; they're not objects to be worked on, turned as needed and bathed. If this mother had asked about her 16-year-old son giving a bed bath to an adult female, there would be no question in anybody's mind. Can you imagine the responses we'd get on this bog? Some of the responses here are just another example of the double standard regarding male and female modesty.

[rn/writer, RN]

The focus here is one-sided because that's what the OP asked for. Patient autonomy is not the topic being discussed. In an earlier post, I said that the patient's thoughts and concerns are definitely valid and important. But they are subject matter for other threads.

If a parent expresses concern about whether or not their child is ready to drive, that's not the right time to talk about the feelings of the driving instructor or whether one brand of car gets better gas mileage than another. Those things might be of great importance--in another context.

Talking about this particular aspect of patient care doesn't mean we have no regard for the others. Only that they are different discussions.

[WannaBNursey, ADN, ASN, RN]

I became a CNA at 16 and got my first job at 17 (birthday was soon after I got certified) I'm now 20. I was never asked if I was comfortable with looking at men, and I had to do this since I was trained. As a professional, if I couldn't be comfortable with all of the gross parts of the human anatomy, why would I become a CNA?

My young age (and I think my relative unattractiveness, I look like an NFL line-backer) actually got me jobs with difficult and heavy male patients when the male CNA's were off. Making sure that the men knew I was under 18 kept some of the more unruly ones in line.

That being said, I really feel bad for men who do not want to be bathed or changed by women because it makes them uncomfortable or arouses them. I've seen men very embarrassed before and some have apologized to me over their morning erections, like it's something that they could help! My home health agency had a real lack of male CNA's which was unfortunate.

The main thing to take away is to keep it professional and put yourself in the patient's shoes whenever possible.

[RN1485, BSN]

My experience is purely LTC/Rehab so my spectrum may be limited but to Cul2: to my understanding you keep mentioning the fact that it would not be considered appropriate or acceptable to society if a 16 yr old male cna performed peri care on an adult woman yet they do it all the time without reprimand. In fact we had a young male CNA who worked at my old facility and he was well received by many of the woman residents. I really see nothing wrong with this as long as he is a responsible, mature caregiver. I think the gender of the caregiver is more of an issue with the comfort level of the residents than age. I'm 26 but I look 16 (according to my co-workers). And yes, if they request a change b/c of gender then of course it is important to accommodate but it is hard to do that when most CNA's are women.

To address the OP: I think it would depend on maturity level. I would be more concerned with other aspects of the job than whether or not she was washing a man's genitals.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

16 is way too young. why is cul2 the only person on this string that cares about the patients?

*** most of the posters here are nurses. you obviously are not a nurse. nurses are the patient's advocate. of course we care about them. you can find countless posts here on allnurses where nurses express their concern for their patients. however this discussions isn't about the patients, it's about a cna or potential cna.

while everyone is so concerned about the precious 16 year old's feelings men are suffering the indignity of being gawked at and fondled by children.

*** "gawked at and fondled"!!!!!! you seriously believe that is what nurses and cnas are doing when we provide the care our patients need!? that isn' the most insulting thing i have ever read about nurses & cnas but it's right up there. if you have such a distain for and low opinion of nurses why are you posting here?

people in the nursing field are trained to not care about the patients' humiliation

*** what!? i know you are not a nurse so you can't possibly know how we are trained. the above proves you have no idea what nursing is about . why would you choose to write such a wildly inaccurate message?

[Cul2]

My concerns have nothing to do with whether these young people are competent or caregiving. Of course

they could be. But they are minors. Who takes the responsibility for their actions? Who's the deep pocket

in a lawsuit? You can have these young adults sign any documents you want regarding HIPAA violations and

other ethical issues -- but these documents are meaningless. As minors, they can't be held responsible.

That's one issue. The other is patient informed consent. I contend that patients have an absolute right to know

their caregiver is a minor, and, thus, the implications of that situation. If patients are fully informed and agree,

then so be it. If hospitals want to get involved in these kinds of risky situations, fine. As long as everyone goes

into it with their eyes wide open.

[fuzzywuzzy, CNA]

"Gawked at and fondled" is a bit over the top. Believe me, no one is thinking about your member more than YOU are, and if having a young female caregiver is an issue then you have every right to request a man.

As for who is liable for their actions... that would be the facility that employs them; although I'm not sure I understand what kind of actions you're referring to.

This thread is about whether a 16-year-old girl would be okay with doing personal care on males, not about whether males can handle it. I was a late bloomer and at 16 I probably would have been traumatized having to do something like that! Still, in most cases you ask the man to do that part of the procedure himself, and if he's unable to do it then he's usually pretty out-to-lunch, which makes it a lot less awkward. Maybe in a hospital you might find more males that are alert but physically can't do that for themselves, but in a nursing home that kind of thing is less likely. Even if you have a man that CAN do it but won't because he gets a thrill, you learn to do a quick-once over. No need to stick around to gawk and fondle.

[IsmeAmanda, LPN]

I would like to add that in my LTC job, men aides work with men. And female aides work with mainly women. There is a rare time when a female CNA has a male, but its rare.

I know it's not like that in most places, but that is my experience. Gender segregated places DO exist.

[rn/writer, RN]

Once again, this thread is about a mother asking questions regarding her teenage daughter's readiness to become a CNA. It is not about the viewpoint of the patients. It is not about who will have deep pockets in the event of a lawsuit. If someone wants to discuss these matters, it should be in a different thread.

These points were made earlier in the thread, but since the redirect was posted more than two years ago, here is a reminder. Any further off-topic posts are subject to removal. And members may be subject to infraction points.