Concerned mother..question about clinicals

PMFB-RN, RN · Jan 3, 2010

It's interesting to get various perceptions about how patients feel about this issue.

How men feel about this opposite gender intimate hasn't been seriously researched

-- so we don't really know. Although I respect your experiences and perceptions in this

area, I don't regard them as the end-all of this debate. Perceptions can be blinded

by group-think and cartloads of baggage and assumptions that one brings to a

situation. If you really want to come close to the truth, do surveys and studies

and actually ask patients about their values and attitudes. To just assume that

everybody's just happy with opposite gender intimate care may make you feel

good, but that doesn't necessarily make it the truth.

*** I wonder if you have my messages confused with others. I certainly did NOT say that everybody's happy with opposite gender care. I wouldn't say something I know to be false like that. What I said is that two years in age, from 16 to 18, of the care giver isn't going to make any difference to the person. If they are bothered by a young female care giver they are not going to be MORE bothered if she is 16 instead of 18.

But I do recognize that you're coming from an attitude that your gender

shouldn't matter -- and it shouldn't.

*** Uh, that is certainly NOT my attitude. You are either deliberately ignoring what I have written or have me confused with somebody else. What I have said is that it shouldn't matter if the care giver is 16 years old or 18 years old.

fuzzywuzzy, CNA · Jan 3, 2010

Yes, because whether she is 16, 17, or 18, she is still a young girl.

PMFB-RN, RN · Jan 4, 2010

Yes, because whether she is 16, 17, or 18, she is still a young girl.

*** Yes, of course. That is why I am wondering and keep asking what is the difference? The OP clearly said she was concerned with her 16 yo daughter doing typical CNA work but would not be so concerned where she 18 rather than 16. Why?

rn/writer, RN · Jan 4, 2010

This thread has wandered pretty far afield. Please, let's return to--and stay with--the original topic, a mother's concern for how her 16 yo daughter will do with some of the intimate care typically performed by a CNA. Discussion that concentrates primarily on the resident's point of view belongs in a different thread.

Thank you.

rn/writer, RN · Jan 4, 2010

My 16 year old high school daughter is thinking about going into nursing so she signed up for the CNA course offered at the local technical college which she also gets class credit for. At the time we signed her up, I really didn't know what a CNA did, but the more I research, the more I am worried about her taking this course.
It's the clinicals that I am worried about. She will be working in a nursing home, helping the regular nurses there care for the elderly, right? The part I am worried about with that is the "assist in dressing and bathing". In clinicals, can the nurses have her bathe a naked man including washing his genital area? Or have her change a Depends undergarment and have to clean the genial area of an old man?
For her to have to do that at 18, I wouldn't have as much problem with it. At 18 your considered an adult. But I don't want her doing that sort of thing at 16.
Please let me know.
Thanks!

I started at 16 as nursing assistant on a post-op floor in a hospital. We were expected to remove the surgical bedding from still-groggy patients and this involved rolling them from side to side. I also assisted with bathing, although, as another posted said, that often meant giving a washcloth to any patient who was able to do their own peri care.

When I was in nursing school, we had an instructor who told us she would tell patients, "I'll help you wash from your head down as far as possible and from your feet up as far as possible. Then I'll give you the washcloth and you can wash 'possible.'"

Back to my nursing assistant experience, did I get an eyeful now and then? You bet. Did it give me nightmares or mess with my mind. No, not really. I'd already been a Red Cross volunteer, a Head Start helper, and a camp counselor for several years. These experiences had done a lot to draw me out of my adolescent self-centeredness, and they taught me how to put someone else's needs before my own, at least for the moment.

I learned much from that job that I still carry with me.

Having said that, such a demanding job (both physically and emotionally) is not for everyone. The biggest factor here is your daughter herself, and you are the one who knows her best.

What is her maturity level? How does she feel about the idea of taking intimate care of older adults, male and female? Is she interested in a nursing career in the long run? Can she talk to you and/or other trusted adults with things that bother her? Is she a fairly down-to-earth kid with a lot of well-rounded interests? Does she have enough self-confidence to go into unfamiliar territory and feel okay about it?

If, after giving this due consideration, you decide that you want her to wait until she is 18 to be a CNA, there are many other areas that could use a bright young volunteer.

I commend you for being concerned for your child. If the two of you talk this through, chances are you'll come up with just the right answer.

sven mulick · Jan 24, 2010

i agree with you 100% cul2. to me, sending in a female cna to do intimate care on me is inappropriate. to send in a 16 year old female is very insulting. both gender and age make a difference to me, but apparently i'm not a person since pmfb-rn said "the two years in age is not going to matter to anyone." so i'm not anyone. pmfb-rn knows me better than i do.

i can't believe that somebody who considers himself or herself a "professional" could say something so ridiculous. how could anyone claim to know what everyone believes?

16 is way too young. why is cul2 the only person on this string that cares about the patients? while everyone is so concerned about the precious 16 year old's feelings men are suffering the indignity of being gawked at and fondled by children.

i think it would be wrong to let your daughter be involved with that class. should underage kids be allowed to drink or smoke if they seem mature for their age? if your daughter has a conscience how will she feel when she sees how humiliated a man is while she's washing his genitals? people in the nursing field are trained to not care about the patients' humiliation but aren't there any nurses or aides that are able to put themselves in the shoes of the patient and care about their feelings? age and gender both matter.

rn/writer, RN · Jan 24, 2010

why is cul2 the only person on this string that cares about the patients? while everyone is so concerned about the precious 16 year old's feelings men are suffering the indignity of being gawked at and fondled by children.

we're concerned about the 16 year old because the op specifically asked about how being a cna might affect her daughter. that's what this thread is about.

i had also posted a redirect earlier asking that we stay on that topic:

discussion that concentrates primarily on the resident's point of view belongs in a different thread.

the patient/resident's perspective is certainly a valid topic for discussion. just not in this thread which asked a different question.

reganette · Jan 25, 2010

I work in a nursery school from ages 16 to 18 and they wouldn't let me change child diapers until I was 18. I don't know if it was state law or just the school policy, but it might be something to look into. 16 was not that long ago for me, and I can honestly say it would make me very uncomfortable to bathe and clean up the elderly (both men and women), but I think it would have made me a better kid - a more well rounded young adult. Although this might not be the best path for your daughter (and I think she'll have to decide that), 16 is the age where girls are starting to become adults, and well, in life and as an adult you have to deal with things that make you uncomfortable to experience the rewards.

rona ricardo · Jan 25, 2010

How would giving a man a bath make you a better kid? Sixteen is too young, at least to work with naked men. But I don't see why changing a baby diaper at sixteen is harmful to anyone, unless a parent requests an adult.

reganette · Jan 25, 2010

How would giving a man a bath make you a better kid? Sixteen is too young, at least to work with naked men. But I don't see why changing a baby diaper at sixteen is harmful to anyone, unless a parent requests an adult.

I think thats twisting what I said a little. I think being a CNA might have been beneficial as a teenager. Not giving a man a bath.

On second thought, maybe it's not a good idea.. not because of your daughter or the place she will work, but because many people are too judgemental and insinuate impropriety.

luvenlife54 · Apr 24, 2012

I'm a male 54 years old and was diagnosed with cancer 3 years ago. I've been in the hospital many times for long stays at a time and have had a lot of experience with nursing aids. I personally prefer female aids to male aids. Being young doesn't bother me at all and I find that younger helpers often have a better attitude and aren't tired from the many years of work. I disagree with some that there is nothing sexual about bathing. For the cna it isn't of course but as a male patient it often is. Erections happen and can't be controlled. I like many men wish we had a switch to turn it on an off, but we can't. And often if we have been in the hospital for a long time and don't have any avenues for.....things become very sensitive. I was very embarrassed once when I ejaculated while being bathed by a young cna. She was very kind though and was understanding and reassuring. I think it is up to the individual and level of maturity as to whether it is healthy for a young girl to be working with males. It is work that has to be done and we are all human.

rn/writer, RN · Apr 24, 2012

Unless a male patient is flat on his back, too weak to move, or has other very serious issues, I would venture to guess that it's more appropriate, and more preferable, for him to do this part of his care himself. There are few reasons (both arms in a cast maybe) for someone who is conscious and has a reasonable amount of dexterity to need another person to wash his private area.

If I had a young daughter going into the medical field, I would point this out to her so she isn't taken advantage of.