Concealed Carry...as a nurse?

tewdles, RN · Feb 3, 2013

Freedom in Christ is all we need, but even Christ had 12 disciples (body guards) who were with him at all times.

Indeed!

I also recall that one of those "bodyguards" conspired against him and Christ asked his disciple to lay aside his weapon when he was captured.

funfunfun550, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2013

They shoot people all the time around where I work. So I have been considering conceal carry.. but pretty sure my conservative organization would say no...that makes me wonder..IF they refuse to provide proper security AND you are not allowed to carry a gun...are they liable??thoughts??Besides what if you shared a locker with someone..that would be dangerous IMHO

oldlvn · Feb 3, 2013

For those saying they would like it for walking to and from work through dark parking lots but don't plan on having it at work...um exactly where do you plan to put it inbetween? I mean...are you going to just lock it in your locker?

As for those who keep it in their cars. About half of our vehicles have been broken into at my job. I work in a not so good neighborhood but not terrible. I feel secure walking to and from the building. Security is usually outside watching over us but honestly they aren't armed at all. I don't know what they would do to protect us.

macawake, MSN · Feb 3, 2013

^ Unarmed Gun violence survivor here...Ladyfree 1, opposition 0 (six feet under)
I was on my way as a HH nurse to do a private duty case in a "nicer" area of the city where I live. My suicidal ex-boyfriend followed me (undiagnosed paranoid schizophrenic; mother has the disorder) as I had a restraining order against him. He was outright threatening me and my family. I planned on getting a gun permit and learning how to shoot, safety issues and obtaining a gun legally to my stature to fire; most likely a .45.
How did I survive 7 bullets at close range by a Barretta??? Bystanders helped, there was a police car in the area (at a local high school, literally 1/2 city block away, so they were there by the time the first shot was fired) and I used self defense moves from preventing him from blowing off my face or possibly having a bullet from my spinal cord, which was his initial and intended target. He was a licensed firearm holder. The courts did not revoke his license to carry, even though I explicitly told them he had a gun, and threatened me with it, or the sheriff department did mot seize it; the police department does not get involved in seizures of guns before a crime, especially in a city that has 300+ murders/year. It helped that It was winter, In our area, a down coat is wearable, so the coat got the rest of the bullets. He committed suicide. I was shot by a gun used for a "straw" (not a "legal" purchase, serial numbers rubbed off, several people had the gun or it was stolen from a legal gun owner) purchase, and he literally had enough bullets to take out the whole community.
If I had a legal gun, would I have been able to avoid trauma surgery, Abdominal area opened and healing by secondary intention for 2 months, 7days in the ICU, going through the wound care, the assumptions, the PTSD, welfare, the Social Security disability process? I'm not sure...I have stopped asking those questions five years ago, 1/29/2008, when I was shot. I found a way to survive without a gun.
I understand the comments that in rural areas, the need may be different, however, I find urban areas, there is an influx of guns used as a solution to mental health crises, for homicide and for suicide, and I see that where mass shootings, and shootings when suburban and rural areas are involved occur...in the rural part of the state, there a responsible gun owners who shoot their families, it is still happening...the urban area deals with it x50-100, but it still occurs. Crisis has no color, socioeconomic status, or geographic area bias. It happens.
I was a nurse who took care of pts who were survivors of gun violence, before I got shot, and the debilitating injuries sustained by my pts and I, were a long rehabilitative process. A lot if lost work, dinged for preexisting health conditions, loss of insurance, all these situations make me look at the gun debate and desire a decrease of guns. I feel as though there are too many guns out there, I feel high powered automatics belong in law enforcement hands. And after my ordeal, due to my PTSD, I HAVE NO DESIRE TO PICK UP or FIRE A GUN...I have to emphatically state this. To smell gun powder on me for 2 months straight, the fear of fire cracker, or the out shot of a car STILL makes me jump occasionally...I have been in EDMR therapy for 2 years, following psychotherapy and counseling for 3 years, and I do not want to touch or see a gun in my presence.
I feel as though I am not equipped to handle a gun, and I've had threats against me and my staff where I worked, I have been threatened in the past. I have worked in the inner city, and in suburban/rural areas. I got the equal amount of threats, however, I will say I have more threats of gun harm in the suburbs, I've gotten the fistacuffs in urban areas...guess because no one wants to be shot after they are visiting a lived one in a facility where they are surrounded by people who are survivors of gun violence-*shrugs*
My pts have been drug dealers, drug addicts, felons, part of gangs, the mafia, and murderers. Even working in pediatrics, you have the parents whose past may be suspect. I have continued to use techniques to counter behavior, even in environments where "the customer is always right" even if they threatened you-this was my previous employer, a pediatric facility. So far no promises on those threats...due to the techniques described by macawake.
The real issue for me is finding ways for facilities to be safer for nurses and caregivers. For me, there is a boundary line that I have ALWAYS had with pts and family members...noticed I said I have been threatened, but no bodily harm or stalking has occurred. I have no filter, I don't have time for the drama, and if you are not happy, you will need to create a happy place and space, otherwise you will be out of here. Most people who have threatened my have apologized, or avoided me...either it was an empty threat, or my techniques have been successful. Either way, I would prefer that facilities should have a mini-police force like the huge trauma centers I have worked for (these places have been trained by my city's police department), but on a smaller scale, and have access to use a firearm if there is action on the gun man'a part. I'm not sure if this could be successful, or fully fundable, but I would prefer that men and women coming home from these wars, after debriefing if needed, can fill these roles...they have the training, the military has used these techniques for a long time (per my experience with my family members-from a military family) and are more suitable.
I am also in support if they are on their way, if a nurse or Dr has a concealed weapon, if they use it, so be it...just make sure that the bullet is not traveling to potentially hit a bystander.
Please forgive me for the long text, and being all over the place. I am currently an advocate against gun violence and DV, and although emotions are high about this issue, I hope that we can have honest, logical conversation about assisting people in crisis, and managing emotions, even if a threat against a nurse should be a felony with required intensive therapy and anger management for 2 years, if they find individuals have continuing mental health issues, if they have a license to carry, for it to be immediately revoked, etc...solutions to at least decrease or delay the possibility of the access of guns...I know the reality of laws on the books can be ineffective, but there has to be a way to protect healthcare workers against violence, as well as decrease gun violence. And it's not the video games, the tv, I don't blame those issues either, because violence and guns have been accessible since our early days in this country, and in civilized countries as a use for power...even if we deal with personal emotions of feeling powerless as a start, with the public, something is better than what is happening right now.

LadyFree28, I'm so sorry to hear about your ordeal and I'm happy that you made it through. I do realize that it has caused you both physical and psychological pain and I admire your strength and resilience. I've encountered domestic violence in my previous career and it always frustrated me and still does that the law seems rather inadequate when it comes to doing something meaningful about this type of violence before it gets completely out of hand. My heart goes out to you, I wish you all the best!

macawake, MSN · Feb 3, 2013

The battle between good and evil will ensue for years to come, but this nation fought a long hard battle and left our mother country because of rights being abolished. Many now are willing to throw the towel in because of a utopia that may be down the road. That utopia is not going to happen, but the pilgrims knew that, and brought along appropriate tools and knowledge to defend their new found land.
Mental health issues need better addressing and more treatment needs to be available for those who have been affected by various crimes. Criminals will still and always will be criminals. Cain killed his brother Abel without a gun and Jesus Christ was killed without one, too. There will always be crime, and guns are not the issue. Are they part of the issue? Maybe. They are as much a part of the issue as pencils are too poor writers, reading glasses are to poor readers, cars to drunk drivers, hammers to poor carpenters, and spoons to poor diet choices.
Once again, it is a matter of perspective. Crime will continue. Mental Health disorders will continue to remain. The real solution...for individuals to look deep inside themselves and seek personal revival from Jesus Christ. Freedom in Christ is all we need, but even Christ had 12 disciples (body guards) who were with him at all times.

I don't live in utopia, but I do live in a country that has significantly fewer gun-related deaths and overall lower rates of homicides. I live in a city with a population a little over 2.100.000 with approximately 26% of the population having immigrant background. It's a multi-cultural city. My country has one of the highest or according to many polls the highest percentage of atheists in the world. Yet I feel safe to wander the streets or use public transportation unarmed at all times during the day and night. I often walk to my gym or go for a jog at 4 or 5 am before going to work. Yes, I do exercise a bit more caution when out and about on a weekend night, quite a few drunk and disorderlies and whitepowdery-nosed individuals on display. I agree with County Rat who wrote "the most powerful fighting system in the world is using one's intelligence to make sure that, if the fight starts, you are not there".

I think that being able to move around freely without fearing violent acts has a huge impact on quality of life. If that was ever threatened I would fight it tooth and nails. Not by increasing access to guns though. I believe in getting to the root of the problem and attending to it. Not just treating the symptoms. I have definite theories as to why we have a lower rate of gun-related crime and overall murders. Some has to do with that few people have access to guns, some have to do with social issues. They definitely do not have anything to do with being more or less prone to violent acts. I must admit, I am a bit curious how people who do not share my views on limiting the access to guns explain the fact that in my relatively gun-free environment fewer gun-related deaths and other homicides occur?

I won't be able to convince those who strongly believe that it's every citizens right to carry a gun or ten guns each that there are other ways to remain safe. What I believe is furthermore of little importance. The only people who can change a society are those who live within it.

jtmarcy12, BSN, RN · Feb 3, 2013

Just curious, if as a nurse or doctor you shoot the person do you perform CPR or just let that person die?

AngelfireRN, MSN, RN, APRN · Feb 3, 2013

My take on that...if I felt threatened enough to cause your injury, I'm not repairing it.In reality, though, I probably would make an effort.

uRNmyway, ASN, RN · Feb 4, 2013

Just curious, if as a nurse or doctor you shoot the person do you perform CPR or just let that person die?

I think it would depend on the circumstance. If someone threatened harm to my child, or actually did, and I shot them, I would call 911, but would not do anything. Otherwise, my intent would be to protect myself and my loved ones, not to cause harm. So if I accomplished my purpose, then yes I would provide first aid/CPR until EMTs arrived.

uRNmyway, ASN, RN · Feb 4, 2013

I think the best thing that your employer should do is hire a safety officer (a vet to give them a job and put their skills to good use as a civilian) to be on-site should any threats occur. I think it's absurd you would bring a gun to work and even think of killing a patient. You work in pain management which is one of the most difficult areas of healthcare and those patients may have some mental health issues, etc. But you choose to work there and work to care for these patients. Alabama is a very racist crazy state so I am not surprised that this is tolerated there.

Wow...by trying to belittle Alabama do you realize how ignorant you made YOURSELF appear?

Can you explain how wanting to carry a weapon for protection has ANYTHING to do with racism? If anything, your assumption that carrying a weapon would have anything to do with racism kind of makes YOU look like that way.

All you need to know is that AngelFireRN deals with patients attending a pain clinic. And let's face it, while probably most people who go there do have genuine pain management issues, some people suffer from addictions. And those people can definitely get aggressive and/or violent if they don't get what they want. Are YOU assuming that those people she would want to protect herself against, because of violent or aggressive behavior are of a different ethnic background than she is?

CountyRat · Feb 4, 2013

I don't live in utopia, but I do live in a country that has significantly fewer gun-related deaths and overall lower rates of homicides. . . I agree with County Rat who wrote "the most powerful fighting system in the world is using one's intelligence to make sure that, if the fight starts, you are not there".

I am flattered by your quotation of my little comment, and I can assure you, that it reflects the attitude of most Americans. As to rates of violence and access to guns, I am not a scholar and so, will not profess any expertise in this matter. However, I would like to point out one fact that, I think, illustrates the complexity of human violence. In my country (the United States) the implements used most frequenly in the commission of homicides are, wait for it . . . household utensels and sporting equipment. The primary "weapon of choice" here is a knife, usually retrieved from a kitchen drawer in the home in which the homicide is committed. Baseball bats, crow bars, and hand tools (for example, screw drivers and hammers) follow in "popularity."

I do not offer these facts as proof of the validity of any position on gun control. The only point that I would like to make is that human violence is, and always has been, much more complex than the presence or absence of weapons. It grieves me to write it, but human beings have a penchant for violence. We work hard to raise decent children who see violence as something to avoid. Most of the time we succeed; sometimes we do not and the result is tragic and frightening.

uRNmyway, ASN, RN · Feb 4, 2013

To add to what you said CountyRat, and to repeat what I said before, linking your country's low crime rates with low gun availability is misleading too.

How Switzerland Developed a Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com

CountyRat · Feb 4, 2013

To add to what you said CountyRat, and to repeat what I said before, linking your country's low crime rates with low gun availability is misleading too.
How Switzerland Developed a Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com

We agree. And thank you for the link to the Time article. While I dispute a few minor comments written by the author, I agree with her completely on her major thesis; that violence (not just violence with guns, but all violence) results from very complex social and individual failures, and that the right to own weapons (in fact, all rights) includes a solumn responsibility to act in a moral way that acknowledges the rights of others and sometimes, requires one to limit the exercise of his or her rights in deference to the needs and rights of others.

Her description of youth shooting clubs teaching Swiss children to be sharpshooters is exactly the way it was in the United States when I was young. I learned to shoot at the Cottontail Ranch Summer Camp in Topanga Canyon, California, and later honed my marksmanship as a Boy Scout. The availability of semi-automatic rifles (which were the weapons with which we practiced) did not cause us to be violent because we learned marksmanship in a cultural context of moral standards: Killing is a horrible sin. Using a weapon to force someone to do something that they do not want to do is evil. Threatening your fellow citizens is evil, will disgrace you and your family, and land you in jail, which is what you would deserve. We were reminded frequently that all rights come with obligations to use those rights in a morally correct way, and that our country would only remain free if its citizens fulfilled those moral obligations.

I do not think that we have successfully transferred those moral imperatives to many people now living in the United States. In fact, I expect to be criticized just for daring to use forbidden words like, “morals,” and even worse, “sin!”

Most violence in the world is committed without guns, so obviously, guns are not the cause of violence. The presence of several guns in a home does not cause the people living in that home to become more violent that they would become if they had only one gun, because guns do not create violence. People create violence, and people are complicated, functioning on many levels. Fewer guns will not equate to less violence. Life is just not that simple, that black and white.

Concealed Carry...as a nurse?

Do you have a concealed carry license?