Published
I've been a lurker for awhile, and I know that this post has been brought up 1-2 times in the last 2 years that I've been an RN. So... you grouchy old farts that would rather I'd revive an old post can just stuff a sock in it. I want to gauge opinions based on our CURRENT situation after the shooting yesterday in San Bernadino, CA.
Truth be told, One single caregiver with a concealed carry permit could have shut this couple down before they hit 14 fatalities.
I plan on getting my CC in January, but I know as an RN, should my handgun be discovered, I'll probably lose my license. It will stay in my car when I am at work. If someone wants to carry out mayhem at my workplace, we are ALL sitting ducks. It is not ok or fair. What are your thoughts?
Did I say anything about getting rid of guns? I was just responding to your statement that Americans want to kill each other and the weapons used "don't really matter." To me, that statement is "simply fantasy."
I'm afraid that I'm with PMFB on this one. I think that the proliferation of guns, both legal and otherwise, bespeaks a fundamental issue in our national culture. a subject for another thread.
ETA: aeb the post immediately preceding this one.
End of derail - carry on (pun intended:sorry:).
Say you run and hide, but you have a CCW -- would you say your chances of survival are greater than if you just hid without a firearm if the bad guys start prowling around looking for more people to shoot?Some of us have been on two way ranges. My MOS in the Army was 11B and I did two tours to Iraq as a Squad Designated Marksman and infantry squad leader; I am confident in my abilities and proficiency with firearms, and know for a fact that I would feel much more protected having a firearm in a situation like this.
Like you pointed out, the police had 23 guys and expended 380 rounds; however, they were HUNTING the bad guys (and I would argue that they didn't NEED 23 officers, but in an active shooter event you want as many guns as possible to put the threats down). Most advocates of personal defense weapons, as well as any training you will ever go to for a CCW license will tell you that the firearm is there not for you to go seek out the danger, rather protect yourself and people around you as a last resort.
I concede all of your points, I intentionally left out fight as the third point in the rush,hide, fight scenario. As an experienced infantryman in a last resort situation I would respect your judgement; however I would posit a concealed pistol was not your primary weapon. There are many I would, and have, staked my life on in very dire situations but I am leery of people that claim the ability to or state the likelihood of a headshot with a sidearm, at distance, in an unsecured environment as a feasible response.
HAHA my pants are already falling down with all the junk in my pockets, the last thing I need is for a heavy gun to add to it.
I have terrible aim, so would never CC.
And I don't particularly trust my coworkers that much, either, so I'd rather we didn't in the hospital I work in.
But some hospitals have bulletproof glass and doors that lock, etc. I'd like to have that where I work (in ER registration). My little registration office is the first thing people see when they walk in, no glass, no locked doors, just little me at the computer (I do have a "panic button" I can hit to call police with no noises or anything). I'd love something a little safer.
How about security that carries actual weapons or tasers? We have no security at this hospital, but the last hospital I worked at did, but they didn't have any weapons, not even a billy club or anything.
Oh hell, I can't help myself from getting in on this. I assume most here are nurses; think for a moment upon the rule of nines for body surface, now consider you only have less than half the head in sight at any given time. Explain your Annie Oakley shooting! Or Buffalo Bill if you will.Now remember it took 23 SWAT team members over 380 rounds to stop the San Berdoo terrorists. Still think your 6-9 shots could have made a difference? Now stand at your nurse's station and consider clear lines of fire including possible ranges and accuracies looking beyond the position of the "bad guys", remember patients that cannot duck and cover.
Still feel like Annie Oakley, now consider modern soldiers expend more rounds of ammunition per fatality or injury than ever. Also has anyone else seen how terrifying the poor muzzle discipline the average police officer exhibits?
I am not arguing against the second amendment, I am arguing that the likelihood that a CCW license holder may be a greater endangerment to themselves and others than a properly trained run and hide staff member. It may be noble to think you can save everybody and be a hero but when someone is shooting at you, your sympathetic nervous system rules and your ass gets scared.
It actually only took a couple of officers to light their SUV up. Granted a lot showed up but initially it was only a couple of officers, the two were bleeding out then the rest showed up.
I do not CCW to protect the world, I carry because I feel it is reasonable and prudent to arm myself. I carry a firearm like I carry life insurance.
I do believe that there was an interesting anecdotal story of a recent attempted terrorist attack in Texas that ended up with two dead terrorists with canoes for heads due to a CCW holder.
Ok that's why things happens ! Cause if I'm in a theater in two or three guys come in shooting innocent people and I'm the only one with a CC 9 rounds gun that is somehow negative but what happen if ten or twelve people have CC 9 rounds pistols? In deferents positions? I think the chances of survival are better than no having any gun ! We need to understand that there's bad people out the and I rather to be prepare to defend my family if some idiot believes that they are soldiers of God and they need to punish innocent people
Think if you are in the ER and you chose not have hand gloves cause some pt are allergic to latex and an emergency arrives and you are there with your bare hands to try to stop an hemorrhage! I don't know you but I rather have a pair of gloves in my pocket !
Be prepare doesn't mean that I want to be a hero, and neither a victim
Advice.... For today's world be prepare ! Period
My husband wants me to get cc. I work in psychiatric hospital as a psychiatric RN. I haven't been threatened yet, but he would like me to keep it in my car. In the end, those 2 terrorists did not have body armor. Also, they did have to take time to reload which would have been an opportunity to defend. I think that even if they wouldn't have been taken out hitting a vital organ, they still could have been incapacitated. I think if someone had a cc, some lives might have been saved.
.... The rifles they had were illegal, and modified illegally. ....
Actually they had been purchased legally
More Than 80 Percent of Guns Used in Mass Shootings Obtained Legally - NBC News
Actually they had been purchased legallyMore Than 80 Percent of Guns Used in Mass Shootings Obtained Legally - NBC News
You should tell the ATF that then because they are saying that they were illegal.
Rifles Used in San Bernardino Shooting Illegal Under State Law - WSJ
heron, ASN, RN
4,663 Posts
I don't need some "anti-gun news agency" to tell me that there is no reason to believe that the guy who is standing over there has the remotest clue of what to do in a shooting emergency. A concealed carry permit in his pocket is a nice piece of paper, but does not automatically mean the he's got any sense, let alone the skill to win - or even survive - a gunfight. Re-read the OP's posts and you'll see what I mean.
I have no issue with concealed carry per se - and a search of my posts on the subject, both here and over on blue, would make that clear. I do have an issue with incompetent owners with no sense of responsibility for the consequences of their behavior on the people around them. The pro-gun industry propaganda machine has convinced many gun owners that people who are concerned about well-meaning but dangerously unskilled concealed carriers are irrelevant. We are not. The implication that we have no place in this discussion speaks volumes to me.
The subject of this thread was concealed carry in a caregiving setting. Even if every single poster on this thread who mentioned his/her personal competence was absolutely accurate in their self-assessment, I still could not agree to it.