Comparing how news media headlines and reports on the same story

Roitrn · Feb 13, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

OK... so you think Biden is a racist, I get that and you are entitled to believe what you prefer. What exactly does that have to do with the comparative reporting on Trump's dinner with the well known white supremacist and the mentally ill antisemitic entertainer?

Bias in media reporting is the topic.

No I said nothing about what I think about Biden. I also did not make allegations and not provide evidence that he is one.

I used an article featuring Biden as an example because he gave a eulogy for a former Kkk member. In fact I was using both stories to demonstrate manipulative bias tactics and pointed out there is no evidence of either of them being racist. In fact the media source from Reuters was more explaining Biden's relationship with a former KKK member than suggesting he was one.

It has do with the story made the same claim you did but did not provide evidence just like you did not now.

You made a statement of fact but did not present your evidence. Now you're not writing for a news media company but it goes along the same way. Same idea.

"Well known white supremist evident by ........". You should fill the blanks.

"Mentally ill antisemitic entertainer evident by ........".

Hence bias media topic.

Roitrn · Feb 13, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

The story doesn't need to prove that Trump is a white supremacist. The story is about a dinner with a well known white supremacist and a mentally ill entertainer.

The dinner itself is evidence of Trump's association with a white supremacist.

The story about Trump's dinner with Fuentes is factual... the only detail you've criticized is the description of Fuentes as a white supremacist. Is there some other factual detail that you disagree with?

You keep saying the story is biased because they used an accurate descriptor which is important to the story. I don't agree. You are welcome to your opinion but I think that Fuentes racist ideology is exactly why his dinner with Trump is notable. It's not everyday that a former president displays such impressively bad judgement or control of his own "brand".

OK...I didn't ask if you were inclined to vote for Trump. I referenced a generic "someone" and you associated yourself personally with that word.

I don't see any insurmountable bias in the story. We do read these articles through our own bias

Why is it important to the story? Because it wants the readers to believe Trump is a white supremacist because he had dinner with one.

There is no evidence provided by the journalist that Trump is a white supremist. Or otherwise associated with any. The fact that this person is one, doesn't make Trump one. There is no evidence Trump even knew who he was. Just like there's no evidence Biden is a racist white supremacist because he gave a eulogy for a former kkk member. The fact that Biden gave a eulogy for a well know former KKK member is notable.

The media bias method is illogical fallacy. To suggest anyone who had dinner with a white supremist is one. Again with no evidence Trump knew him or of him.

Again, I am not making the claim either Nick Fuentes is or is not a supremist. Just that the story failed to provide evidence of. Showing its bias.

Roitrn · Feb 13, 2023

heron said:

I'm not going to play dueling citations with you. When reading your posts, I remembered hearing about Sen. Byrd back in the day. Yes, he was a member of the KKK for a time. He also fought against Civil Rights and the voting rights acts, too. But your characterization did not jibe with my memories of the time. It just isn't the whole story. Short biographies are readily accessed online - go see for yourself.

It's a great example of what I think of as the gerrymandering of history and context: edit out anything that might change a given narrative, especially when the disappeared info actually disproves that narrative.

I agree with everything you say. I did not make any assertions to Byrd one way or an other. And the points is.......

Bias media!

toomuchbaloney · Feb 13, 2023

Roitrn said:

No I said nothing about what I think about Biden. I also did not make allegations and not provide evidence that he is one.

I used an article featuring Biden as an example because he gave a eulogy for a former Kkk member. In fact I was using both stories to demonstrate manipulative bias tactics and pointed out there is no evidence of either of them being racist. In fact the media source from Reuters was more explaining Biden's relationship with a former KKK member than suggesting he was one.

It has do with the story made the same claim you did but did not provide evidence just like you did not now.

You made a statement of fact but did not present your evidence. Now you're not writing for a news media company but it goes along the same way. Same idea.

"Well known white supremist evident by ........". You should fill the blanks.

"Mentally ill antisemitic entertainer evident by ........".

Hence bias media topic.

My comment that you quoted was a response to another member... not you...I quoted them in my content to make it obvious.

I already told you that I thought your comparison to Biden was weak and gave you a reason. Do you need more reasons why I think it's a weak comparison?

The story about Trump's dinner makes what claim that you object to? What are they claiming? Would you please quote the language so that we can discuss the unsubstantiated claim?

...as evidenced by his own words and behaviors. Do you not understand who Nick Fuentes is in the white supremacy world? His YouTube channel was famous for antisemitic and white supremacy garbage until it was permanently shut down by the platform.

You evidenced Ye's mental illness yourself. By now most everyone must know about it given his crazy public behavior and speech in the recent past.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 13, 2023

Roitrn said:

I agree with everything you say. I did not make any assertions to Byrd one way or an other. And the points is.......

Bias media!

Or... the reader is ignoring key differences and details to make it seem that the two situations are similar when they aren't similar at all. And that would also be a form of bias.

Roitrn · Feb 13, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

Or... the reader is ignoring key differences and details to make it seem that the two situations are similar when they aren't similar at all. And that would also be a form of bias.

How? I clearly said that neither story provides evidence that Biden or Trump is a racist. I even purposely sourced a story that was more in favor of explaining why Biden gave a eulogy for a former KKK member than condemning him for it.

Everyone is bias. I am bias. Right now I will say I am more right bias than left. Individual bias is unavoidable. I tend to find more meaningful discussions when people acknowledge their own bias. And find better resources when they actively challenge their own bias.

I tried to even mine out by using a less hostile explanation as to why Biden gave a eulogy to a former KKK member. I could have found a more inflamed right leaning version from another source. I chose a relatively left to centre Reuters .

I actually advocated that there is no evidence that Biden is a racist because of his eulogy.

Roitrn · Feb 13, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

My comment that you quoted was a response to another member... not you...I quoted them in my content to make it obvious.

I already told you that I thought your comparison to Biden was weak and gave you a reason. Do you need more reasons why I think it's a weak comparison?

The story about Trump's dinner makes what claim that you object to? What are they claiming? Would you please quote the language so that we can discuss the unsubstantiated claim?

...as evidenced by his own words and behaviors. Do you not understand who Nick Fuentes is in the white supremacy world? His YouTube channel was famous for antisemitic and white supremacy garbage until it was permanently shut down by the platform.

You evidenced Ye's mental illness yourself. By now most everyone must know about it given his crazy public behavior and speech in the recent past.

I stated my comparison to Biden giving a eulogy to a former KKK member does not make him a racist. Is that not true?

And compared it to Trump having a dinner with a person that he was not familiar with or may not even have know was coming does not make him a supremacist. Not saying this is true just the article did not provide evidence.

I object to that the journalist failed to provide evidence that because Trump had dinner with this person, makes Trump a white supremist or believes in supremacist ideology.

The story was bias because it lacked evidence of what it was implying.

This is also manipulative because the journalist doesn't make actual accusations against Trump, instead stated ideas to lead the reader to believe Trump is a supremacist or akin to one.. To make the reader to lean a certain way.

What part of it do you believe it effectively provided evidence that he associates with these types of people knowingly? That he has this ideology? In this article specifically?

Roitrn · Feb 13, 2023

I was not very familiar with this Nick Fuentes. He has some discusting vile beliefs.

It seems though he's not a big an of the GOP. Or Trump

Quote

Groypers, including himself, were once strong Trump supporters but are now angry that the Republican Party is not doing enough to deal with demographic and cultural changes that affect the white population in the U.S. According to Fuentes, "the new Republican Party is the party of climate change, universal health care and black lives matter.” Fuentes and his followers often dress in suits and ties to project a "mainstream" conservative image, highlighting the Groyper's central goal of disrupting and replacing the established GOP.

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/nicholas-j-fuentes-five-things-know

This peice of media makes claims and provided evidence using Nock's words and references where the they got them.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 13, 2023

Roitrn said:

I was not very familiar with this Nick Fuentes. He has some discusting vile beliefs.

It seems though he's not a big an of the GOP. Or Trump

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/nicholas-j-fuentes-five-things-know

This peice of media makes claims and provided evidence using Nock's words and references where the they got them.

I know who Fuentes is and what kind of things he's said. Maybe Trump is just ignorant of Fuentes celebrity in that racist world. Clearly a number of republican representatives know exactly who Fuentes is.

Roitrn said:

I stated my comparison to Biden giving a eulogy to a former KKK member does not make him a racist. Is that not true?

And compared it to Trump having a dinner with a person that he was not familiar with or may not even have know was coming does not make him a supremacist. Not saying this is true just the article did not provide evidence.

I object to that the journalist failed to provide evidence that because Trump had dinner with this person, makes Trump a white supremist or believes in supremacist ideology.

The story was bias because it lacked evidence of what it was implying.

This is also manipulative because the journalist doesn't make actual accusations against Trump, instead stated ideas to lead the reader to believe Trump is a supremacist or akin to one.. To make the reader to lean a certain way.

What part of it do you believe it effectively provided evidence that he associates with these types of people knowingly? That he has this ideology? In this article specifically?

The journalist didn't make the claim that Trump is a white supremacist or that he believes in that ideology. Your are extrapolating that claim and then criticizing them for your interpretation.

Your comparison of Biden to Trump in this regard is weak. Repentant racist versus proud racist is a huge difference in the two examples. But you are welcome to criticize the article in question by repeatedly implying that Biden did the same thing when he clearly did not. That really makes it seem like you are trying to prove that Trump isn't racist rather than that the article was inflammatory but...

I disagree that the article "implies" anything beyond asking why would a former president share a public meal with a crazy antisemitic entertainer and his white supremacist and Nazi supporting friend. It's appropriate to review relevant Trump history relative to racism when considering this dinner, isn't it? Or is that tantamount to implying something?

Trump hired white supremacists and racists to be a part of his staff and cabinet. THAT is direct evidence that he associates with them knowingly.

I still disagree with your characterizations that are (IMHO) based upon your interpretation rather than actual language of the article. I think that you can see that the article does not call Trump a racist but it does put him in the company of a famous racist and it says that Trump was impressed with him. You get to decide what that means.

Roitrn · Feb 13, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

I know who Fuentes is and what kind of things he's said. Maybe Trump is just ignorant of Fuentes celebrity in that racist world. Clearly a number of republican representatives know exactly who Fuentes is.

The journalist didn't make the claim that Trump is a white supremacist or that he believes in that ideology. Your are extrapolating that claim and then criticizing them for your interpretation.

Your comparison of Biden to Trump in this regard is weak. Repentant racist versus proud racist is a huge difference in the two examples. But you are welcome to criticize the article in question by repeatedly implying that Biden did the same thing when he clearly did not. That really makes it seem like you are trying to prove that Trump isn't racist rather than that the article was inflammatory but...

I disagree that the article "implies" anything beyond asking why would a former president share a public meal with a crazy antisemitic entertainer and his white supremacist and Nazi supporting friend. It's appropriate to review relevant Trump history relative to racism when considering this dinner, isn't it? Or is that tantamount to implying something?

Trump hired white supremacists and racists to be a part of his staff and cabinet. THAT is direct evidence that he associates with them knowingly.

I still disagree with your characterizations that are (IMHO) based upon your interpretation rather than actual language of the article. I think that you can see that the article does not call Trump a racist but it does put him in the company of a famous racist and it says that Trump was impressed with him. You get to decide what that means.

My argument is with the integrity of the story. I was not defending Trump or persecuting Biden.

Perhaps your own bias is interfering with you comprehending that?

If you want to cast Trump as racist for having dinner with one, where there was no evidence provided by the writer that Trump knew who he was or that he invited him, then you can say for Biden that there is no evidence that Biden is a racist because he gave a eulogy to a former KKK member. This is the only comparison. Between the media I sourced. This is not my personal opinion. I didn't state my opinion.

If you want to provide evidence and prove Trump is a racist and Buden is not,have at it.

It is understood that you feel the story was not bias and that Trump is a racist. And Biden is not because he gave a eulogy to a former KKK member.

So you feel that a former fascist KKK member can repent and say sorry and that's satisfactory for you?

What if it was a republican? Can Trump say sorry? Would you be so forgiving? My intuition tells me no. We all have bias.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 13, 2023

I dunno... maybe Trump is so incompetent that he cannot properly vet people before gracing them with his high profile attention or employment opportunities.

Roitrn · Feb 13, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

I know who Fuentes is and what kind of things he's said. Maybe Trump is just ignorant of Fuentes celebrity in that racist world. Clearly a number of republican representatives know exactly who Fuentes is.

The journalist didn't make the claim that Trump is a white supremacist or that he believes in that ideology. Your are extrapolating that claim and then criticizing them for your interpretation.

Your comparison of Biden to Trump in this regard is weak. Repentant racist versus proud racist is a huge difference in the two examples. But you are welcome to criticize the article in question by repeatedly implying that Biden did the same thing when he clearly did not. That really makes it seem like you are trying to prove that Trump isn't racist rather than that the article was inflammatory but...

I disagree that the article "implies" anything beyond asking why would a former president share a public meal with a crazy antisemitic entertainer and his white supremacist and Nazi supporting friend. It's appropriate to review relevant Trump history relative to racism when considering this dinner, isn't it? Or is that tantamount to implying something?

Trump hired white supremacists and racists to be a part of his staff and cabinet. THAT is direct evidence that he associates with them knowingly.

I still disagree with your characterizations that are (IMHO) based upon your interpretation rather than actual language of the article. I think that you can see that the article does not call Trump a racist but it does put him in the company of a famous racist and it says that Trump was impressed with him. You get to decide what that means.

I was not familiar with Fuentes. I do not particularly pay attention to people who are racist.

toomuchbaloney said:

I dunno... maybe Trump is so incompetent that he cannot properly vet people before gracing them with his high profile attention or employment opportunities.

Perhaps he is. Perhaps he doesn't pay attention to people like that? And there is no evidence he knew he was coming.