Comparing how news media headlines and reports on the same story

Roitrn · Feb 12, 2023

nursej22 said:

I think I stated earlier that I thought ProPublica does an excellent job of reporting. AP and Reuters seem to be fairly unbiased. I think some of the reporters from the New York Times and the Washington Post do some good investigative work, mostly because they seek out many sources, although I think the editors and the headline writers lean toward the sensationalistic. Journalists are human, and will always have some unconscious bias. I think as consumers of journalism it is incumbent on ourselves to be aware of confirmation bias.

For instance, I have never been a fan of Mr. Trump, going to back to his stint as a reality show personality. So if a negative story appears, I want to believe it. But I will look at other sources, including his own tweets and truths to see if there is more to the story. I will watch videos of his rally appearances and listen to what he has to say, not just rely on what media reports.

That's what I did too with Trump.

I think we will will probably differ from here but when I payed more attention to his policy and political agenda and began to see the blatant bias from some MSM. And I listened to him directly and in its entirety.

The Charlottesville incident. I kept hearing that he was siding with Nazis, white supremacist over and over from MSM. He was calling nazis "good people". When I watched his entire speech, it became clear that this is not exactly what he said. After all, who would think Nazis are good people and who would actually say it out loud of the few that do? Especially not a US president addressing the nation?

Had I not investigated it myself, I very well could have gone on believing that Trump thinks Nazis are good people.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 12, 2023

Trump did have dinner with a neo-Nazi last year.

nursej22, MSN, RN · Feb 12, 2023

Roitrn said:

Had I not investigated it myself, I very well could have gone on believing that Trump thinks Nazis are good people.

Yes, I listened to what he said, also. And in my opinion, it was his usual gobbledy-gook. I think he is a narcissist and says whatever he thinks makes him look good or make him money or people will say nice things about him. But if you defy him, then you are dog doo. Look how he treated Comey, Gen. McMaster, Gen. Mattis, Gen. Kelly, Col. Vindman, AG Sessions, Tillerson, Scaramucci.

Roitrn · Feb 12, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

Trump did have dinner with a neo-Nazi last year.

I've tried to find info on this and although I found many reports that Trump had dinner with a white nationalist, which is factually true. However I have found no evidence reported that he knew who this person was or that he even knew he was coming to the dinner with Ye. Trump commented that he was not aware this person was coming and was not familiar with the person.

Quote

It is unclear how much Mr. Trump knew of Mr. Fuentes's well-documented bigotry and extremism before their dinner.

Quote

In a statement on Friday, Mr. Trump said: "Kanye West very much wanted to visit Mar-a-Lago. Our dinner meeting was intended to be Kanye and me only, but he arrived with a guest whom I had never met and knew nothing about....."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/politics/trump-nick-fuentes-dinner.html

toomuchbaloney · Feb 12, 2023

Roitrn said:

I've tried to find info on this and although I found many reports that Trump had dinner with a white nationalist, which is factually true. However I have found no evidence reported that he knew who this person was or that he even knew he was coming to the dinner with Ye. Trump commented that he was not aware this person was coming and was not familiar with the person.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/politics/trump-nick-fuentes-dinner.html

So much for the great security and top notch staff at Mar a Lago. The former president isn't very discerning about the company he keeps.

Do you think the coverage of this story was balanced? Was Trump treated fairly?

Roitrn · Feb 12, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

So much for the great security and top notch staff at Mar a Lago. The former president isn't very discerning about the company he keeps.

Do you think the coverage of this story was balanced? Was Trump treated fairly?

The title immediately uses logical fallacy. "White Supremasist Nick Fuentes.....". He went to the dinner with Ye who is obviously a black man. It's would have been less bias and accurate to say "Antisemite.......". The use of the highly emotional term was to instil the feelings of discust to associate with Trump.

2. Composition Fallacy

This fallacy happens when something that is true of the parts is assumed to be true of the whole. It also occurs when it is assumed that something that is true for one or some group members is true of the whole.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/9-logical-fallacies-used-opinion-writers

It then goes on to suggest that Trump is or is a white supremacist antisemite because this person was there without any evidence that Trump himself is/feels/thinks like this.

The story was one of the few milder versions I found. So with what I described above, no, I do not think they treated him fairly.

I'm unable to go back to the article. Did it say somewhere that Trumps dinner guest were freely roaming the Grounds of Mar a logo?

toomuchbaloney · Feb 12, 2023

Roitrn said:

The title immediately uses logical fallacy. "White Supremasist Nick Fuentes.....". He went to the dinner with Ye who is obviously a black man. It's would have been less bias and accurate to say "Antisemite.......". The use of the highly emotional term was to instil the feelings of discust to associate with Trump.

2. Composition Fallacy

This fallacy happens when something that is true of the parts is assumed to be true of the whole. It also occurs when it is assumed that something that is true for one or some group members is true of the whole.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/9-logical-fallacies-used-opinion-writers

It then goes on to suggest that Trump is or is a white supremacist antisemite because this person was there without any evidence that Trump himself is/feels/thinks like this.

The story was one of the few milder versions I found. So with what I described above, no, I do not think they treated him fairly.

I'm unable to go back to the article. Did it say somewhere that Trumps dinner guest were freely roaming the Grounds of Mar a logo?

Nick Fuentes IS a white supremacist and anti-Semite. That is an accurate descriptor for Ye's (also an anti-Semite) guest. The use of the term was intended to leave no question as to the ideology of the man sharing a meal with the former president.

It suggests that Trump is not careful or discerning about his associations... this is not new or unexpected behavior from Trump. We've seen Trump comfortably associate himself with proud racists before... people like Steve Bannon or Stephen Miller.

No the article didn't talk about the racist neo-Nazi freely roaming the grounds. It reported that Trump's team allowed a man that they didn't apparently know sit for dinner with the former president because a black man currently famous for irrational and unacceptable (anti-semetic) public utterance and attitudes wanted him to. IMHO that says that either Trump's staff is incompetent in their vetting and scheduling or that Trump ignored their warnings when they told him who Fuentes is or that Trump knew who Fuentes is and this is just another in a long list of dishonest Trump denials. Trump is, after all, a practiced and habitual liar.

nursej22, MSN, RN · Feb 12, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

Trump is, after all, a practiced and habitual liar.

And a perpetual victim.

Roitrn · Feb 12, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

Nick Fuentes IS a white supremacist and anti-Semite. That is an accurate descriptor for Ye's (also an anti-Semite) guest. The use of the term was intended to leave no question as to the ideology of the man sharing a meal with the former president.

It suggests that Trump is not careful or discerning about his associations... this is not new or unexpected behavior from Trump. We've seen Trump comfortably associate himself with proud racists before... people like Steve Bannon or Stephen Miller.

No the article didn't talk about the racist neo-Nazi freely roaming the grounds. It reported that Trump's team allowed a man that they didn't apparently sit for dinner with the former president because a black man currently famous for irrational and unacceptable (anti-semetic) public utterance and attitudes wanted him to. IMHO that says that either Trump's staff is incompetent in their vetting and scheduling or that Trump ignored their warnings when they told him who Fuentes is or that Trump knew who Fuentes is and this is just another in a long list of dishonest Trump denials. Trump is, after all, a practiced and habitual liar.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/white supremacist

Quote

white supremacist

noun

: a person who believes that the white race is inherently superior to other races and that white people should have control over people of other races

To me this definition does not align with the definition of "white supremacist ". Although not stated above in the definition, my interpretation would include that a "white supremacist" would not have a friendly dinner with a black man.

Or do you subscribe to the new definition as in the the Urban Dictonary?:

Quote

Any White or Asian person who doesn't affiliate with or call themselves an Antifa member or a Black Life's Matter activist

Hey that White guy doesn't support BLM activists burning down a business. He's so into White supremacy.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=White supremacy

Either way the headline uses the term in order to associate Trump with it but without including any evidence that he has the same beliefs. So it is using word choice as well as inflammatory language.

An example of if I wanted to write an equally biased peice on Biden in order to cast him as a KKK supporter it may read:

"Biden gives eulogy to grand wizard KKK member Robert Byrd".

Which is factually true(except the wizard part) but it leaves out that this person later apologized and distanced himself from the group.

None of this gives evidence that Biden has the same ideals as a KKK member.

I can agree he may not make the best decisions and you may speculate someone advised him and he didn't listen. It is your opinion but if you were writing a media story, you would need to substantiate this claim with evidence.

I could speculate that perhaps Trump doesn't give these types of people much consideration because in my opinion they do not deserve any attention at all. So he wasn't aware of of who this was. I myself am vaguely aware of who he is and will do more research.

Also, he said he didn't know this man was coming to the dinner. The story did not provide any evidence that Trump knew he was coming along with Ye.

So the story was effective in associating Trump with a white supremacist as evident in this thread.

Roitrn · Feb 12, 2023

Disclaimer:

It's not my intention to defend Trump. Or any alleged or actual white supremist and/or antisemite +++. I'm discussing the media story and its bias.

toomuchbaloney · Feb 12, 2023

Roitrn said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/white supremacist

To me this definition does not align with the definition of "white supremacist ". Although not stated above in the definition, my interpretation would include that a "white supremacist" would not have a friendly dinner with a black man.

Or do you subscribe to the new definition as in the the Urban Dictonary?:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=White supremacy

Either way the headline uses the term in order to associate Trump with it but without including any evidence that he has the same beliefs. So it is using word choice as well as inflammatory language.

An example of if I wanted to write an equally biased peice on Biden in order to cast him as a KKK supporter it may read:

"Biden gives eulogy to grand wizard KKK member Robert Byrd".

Which is factually true(except the wizard part) but it leaves out that this person later apologized and distanced himself from the group.

None of this gives evidence that Biden has the same ideals as a KKK member.

I can agree he may not make the best decisions and you may speculate someone advised him and he didn't listen. It is your opinion but if you were writing a media story, you would need to substantiate this claim with evidence.

I could speculate that perhaps Trump doesn't give these types of people much consideration because in my opinion they do not deserve any attention at all. So he wasn't aware of of who this was. I myself am vaguely aware of who he is and will do more research.

Also, he said he didn't know this man was coming to the dinner. The story did not provide any evidence that Trump knew he was coming along with Ye.

So the story was effective in associating Trump with a white supremacist as evident in this thread.

That's your impression or belief about white supremacists, I disagree. White supremacists have used black men to forward their racist agenda since the beginnings of this country.

Outside of you not thinking that a white supremacist would have dinner with a black man I don't see any evidence that demonstrates that Fuentes isn't a white supremacist. Fuentes hasn't distanced himself from the racists or apologized for racist remarks and activities. So your extrapolated comparison to Biden is weak.

Trump is associated with term "white supremacy" or "anti-Semite" because he calls them friend or advisor or staff member or guest of a friend. He hires them and has dinner with them comfortably. Trump associated himself with Bannon and Miller and Ye and Fuentes... the media didn't do that.

Trump's repeated examples of terrible judgement are good reasons that he should be no where near political power ever again.

Roitrn · Feb 12, 2023

toomuchbaloney said:

That's your impression or belief about white supremacists, I disagree. White supremacists have used black men to forward their racist agenda since the beginnings of this country.

Outside of you not thinking that a white supremacist would have dinner with a black man I don't see any evidence that demonstrates that Fuentes isn't a white supremacist. Fuentes hasn't distanced himself from the racists or apologized for racist remarks and activities. So your extrapolated comparison to Biden is weak.

Trump is associated with term "white supremacy" or "anti-Semite" because he calls them friend or advisor or staff member or guest of a friend. He hires them and has dinner with them comfortably. Trump associated himself with Bannon and Miller and Ye and Fuentes... the media didn't do that.

Trump's repeated examples of terrible judgement are good reasons that he should be no where near political power ever again.

And the media did not provide credible evidence that Trump is a "white supremacist", agrees with them or Ye. They can speculate and give their opinion as you did. Integrity would be to deliver information factually and without using manipulative media tactics. Allow people to decide for themselves. As well as the Trump Maga-phobes in the Democrat party.

If Biden can give a eulogy to a proven former KKK member that is well known and documented, and not have guilt by association. Unless someone can provide credible evidence that he aligns with the ideology. Who's to say this former KKK member wasn't using black people to forward his racist agenda as well?

Again, I am discussing the media story not if Trump is a white supremacist. It's obvious that you think he is and your distain for him is well noted.

I imagine you will not be voting for him in 2024. Some inevitably will. I find it that more people will take notice of the bias in media and seek their own opinions this time arround. I'm unsure if some media is capable of delivering non bias information about Trump. If the people believe the same as you then he will not be in office again.

Ye , who has publically acknowledged his metal health deficit is just that. A person who is very publicly and sadly exhibiting symptoms of mental illness. (Does not give an excuse for antisemitic comments).

https://nypost.com/article/kanye-west-mental-illness-bipolar-disorder/

https://www.thecut.com/2022/02/kanye-west-bipolar-disorder.html#:~:text=Kanye%2C who is now legally,tweeting and performing through them

Quote

Kanye, who is now legally known by his nickname, Ye, was diagnosed with bipolar disorder after being hospitalized for a psychiatric emergency in 2016. In the years since, he's spoken about experiencing manic episodes, often tweeting and performing through them. He has famously referred to bipolar disorder as his "superpower,” and spoke candidly about the stigma around mental illness on David Letterman's show in 2019. "I ramp up, I go high,” he said of his episodes, describing feelings of paranoia and delusions, as well as being handcuffed, drugged, and hospitalized.

"The Cut" t article doesn't specify where he was diagnosed bi-polar but this could be do to privacy laws. However his observable behavior provides some credible evidence through his behavior.