Why are so many nurses against unions?

[Icunicenurse]

I really don't understand. I am a newish nurse that landed my "dream job" in the icu. My hospital is the biggest and best in the area and we are currently on a journey to magnet. I feel like I was lied to about how this would help nurses and we would be supported and taken care of.

In my icu we have a very high acuity. We are constantly short staffed and tripled. 1:1 for ccrt pts is advertised but never actually happens!

I have seen a patient self extubate during the holy interdisciplinary rounds due to that nurse being tripled and spread out across the unit. None of the bosses said any thing and just went on to round on the next patient.

The majority of our assistants will not help unless asked and it's like pulling teeth just to get them to help with a blood sugar check. Often they are sitting on their cellphones or just catching up on gossip. But since they have worked there a long time it is widely accepted by the staff.

We have are losing staff nurses left and right.

I have been talked down to by our surgeons and blatantly disrespected on more than one occasion for trying to help a patient but not enough to be considered abusive so that I could report it. Once, I calmly asked a doc to update the close family members of a dying patient at their request. Since a distant family had been updated, the doctor was visibly offended and proceeded to call my charge nurse and say "I got in her face" which was completely false. Luckily the charge was within ear shot and heard everything. This was swept under the rug.

During my new nurse orientation the nursing instructor preached against unions especially since we were going magnet and would have so many benefits.

I feel like a strong nurse union could solve many of our problems and help our patient care. But the majority of nurses I have talked to are completely against it. I can't understand this for the life of me.

Sadly, my dream job has turned to hell. I love my sick patients and family but sick of being overworked, tripled, never even getting a lunch break, all while being talked down to and humiliated by the Dr.s that see me as a stupid new nurse.

[dnptobe20]

In many other countries physicians, pharmacists and other healthcare providers are unionized because there is more power in a unified voice than there is in 1. Of course the executive rank and file and management in many organizations have traditionally been anti union because it does't serve their bottom lines. In our country unions have been more associated with blue collar workers than white collar and many have used this to stigmatize any group that tries to unionize as unprofessional (to me this is nonsense, by the way) i rememver nursing professors not-too-subtly making this assertion in nursing school and discouraging unionization.

Weeeell, i am an NNU member at my hospital..not terribly active in any way but happy to be one. We enjoy the higest wages in our area, union representation anytime our management wants to sanction us for anything, guaranteed 1:2 or 1:1 ratios in our icus with no exceptions, etc etc...when it comes ro scheduling and vacations each unit has some leeway in determining how it works and things are working out pretty well for us. Our union has fought for $10,000 a year towards education, guaranteed pay and seniority structure as well as annual raises etc etc. And you can't just be fired for any odd reason. Our union has fought for and brought back many nurses fired during a major snowstorm...these nurses were fired because they had kids at home they could not leave to come to work since the hospital did not provide transport. The union had them rehired and the hospital provided backpay for ALL the time they were unemployed!

Needless to say, I am happy with our union and all the gains we have won for ourselves as nurses.

[dnptobe20]

And if a nurse is a poor performer and caregiver, and employers can adequately prove that, not even a union can stand in the way of this nurse being fired. Someone had compared unionized nurses to tenured professors - tenured professors can lose their jobs under certain circumstances just like everyone else.

Unions are not there to provide iron-clad guarantees of a job despite your performance. They exist to help ensure that your pay and working conditions are fair. I feel terrible for what some of the nurses working in non-unionized neighboring hospitals are having to endure despite complaints to management.

Unions, like any other organization are not perfect but they are a viable alternative to an everyone-for-themselves approach.

[RNKPCE]

dnptobe20 said:

And if a nurse is a poor performer and caregiver, and employers can adequately prove that, not even a union can stand in the way of this nurse being fired. Someone had compared unionized nurses to tenured professors - tenured professors can lose their jobs under certain circumstances just like everyone else.

Unions are not there to provide iron-clad guarantees of a job despite your performance. They exist to help ensure that your pay and working conditions are fair. I feel terrible for what some of the nurses working in non-unionized neighboring hospitals are having to endure despite complaints to management.

Unions, like any other organization are not perfect but they are a viable alternative to an everyone-for-themselves approach.

So glad you said this. I don't get why some people think that unions are there reason underperforming workers keeping their jobs.

Most union places have to follow steps for progressive discipline including proper documentation and plans for improvement. Doesn't this make sense? Even non union jobs usually have progressive discipline or performance improvement plans. If someone is impaired, stealing, forging documentation and the like, they can be let go right away whether the facility is a union one or not.

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

dnptobe20 said:

In many other countries physicians, pharmacists and other healthcare providers are unionized because there is more power in a unified voice than there is in 1. Of course the executive rank and file and management in many organizations have traditionally been anti union because it does't serve their bottom lines. In our country unions have been more associated with blue collar workers than white collar and many have used this to stigmatize any group that tries to unionize as unprofessional (to me this is nonsense, by the way) i rememver nursing professors not-too-subtly making this assertion in nursing school and discouraging unionization.

Weeeell, i am an NNU member at my hospital..not terribly active in any way but happy to be one. We enjoy the higest wages in our area, union representation anytime our management wants to sanction us for anything, guaranteed 1:2 or 1:1 ratios in our icus with no exceptions, etc etc...when it comes ro scheduling and vacations each unit has some leeway in determining how it works and things are working out pretty well for us. Our union has fought for $10,000 a year towards education, guaranteed pay and seniority structure as well as annual raises etc etc. And you can't just be fired for any odd reason. Our union has fought for and brought back many nurses fired during a major snowstorm...these nurses were fired because they had kids at home they could not leave to come to work since the hospital did not provide transport. The union had them rehired and the hospital provided backpay for ALL the time they were unemployed!

Needless to say, I am happy with our union and all the gains we have won for ourselves as nurses.

With better staffing new nurses are more likely to stay until they have seniority.

I'm so very glad your nurses got their jobs back. In 2010 when roads were closed and trains and buses don't run some nurses could not get to work.

Did your hospital have a plan for staffing during this year's recent snow storms?

[dnptobe20]

Herring-rn our hospital was actually one of the only hospitals that did not declare a snow emergency unfortunately. Many nurses made sure to show up early and stayed there for days and they were repaid with food & linen shortages, no transport provided, and poor arbitrary sleeping arrangements. It was a huge mess! They didn't want to pay for all their obligations if they declared a snow emergency. And they definitely took advantage of the fact that nurses went above and beyond to make sure they were there early.

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

dnptobe20 said:

Herring-rn our hospital was actually one of the only hospitals that did not declare a snow emergency unfortunately. Many nurses made sure to show up early and stayed there for days and they were repaid with food & linen shortages, no transport provided, and poor arbitrary sleeping arrangements. It was a huge mess! They didn't want to pay for all their obligations if they declared a snow emergency. And they definitely took advantage of the fact that nurses went above and beyond to make sure they were there early.

That is too bad. I'm still glad nurses go above and beyond the minimum. We should all be proud of our work.

[pmabraham, BSN, RN]

For safe ratios, you need strong laws which are enforced rather than corruptible unions

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

pmabraham said:

For safe ratios, you need strong laws which are enforced rather than corruptible unions

I hope we don't let OUR union be corrupted.

Ratios were achieved by thousands nurses working with their union.

[ProgressiveActivist, BSN, RN]

Why are so many nurses against unions?

Anti-union sentiment became a conservative Republican principle after Saint Ronald Reagan fired the Air traffic controllers who went on strike for safety reasons.

That's why.

[heron, ASN, RN]

libbyliberal said:

Why are so many nurses against unions?

Anti-union sentiment became a conservative Republican principle after Saint Ronald Reagan fired the Air traffic controllers who went on strike for safety reasons.

Yeah, but he built on a base of resentment and loathing going back to the start of the industrial revolution, at least. It's a class thing, not a political party thing, in my opinion. Reagan, or his ad guys, leveraged that masterfully - but they didn't invent it.

[ProgressiveActivist, BSN, RN]

heron said:

Yeah, but he built on a base of resentment and loathing going back to the start of the industrial revolution, at least. It's a class thing, not a political party thing, in my opinion. Reagan, or his ad guys, leveraged that masterfully - but they didn't invent it.

I have found it to be most intense in the South. Not sure why that is but everything wrong "is because of the unions ruining this country" Must be a red state thing.

[SororAKS, ADN, RN]

Not necessarilly just the South. Anti unionist sentiment is in pockets everywhere. The union I helped start was in IN, a very fierce pocket of anti union folks there too.