CNA impersonating RN

[Heaven-Leigh]

I'm not really sure where this goes, but I ran into an old friend the other day and asked how his family was doing. My friend's sister has worked as a CNA for years, but never went to nursing school as she became a stay at home wife as soon as she got married and quit school (prereqs) and her job.

My friend told me that his sister is currently working at a local middle school as the school nurse. I replied that I thought his sister never attended nursing school, so if he was sure if that was really her job title. He replied that she had her CNA and that since their grandma works for the school system was able to pull a few strings and get her hired.

I asked if maybe she was assisting the school nurse and he told me that the previous nurse either quit or was let go. (Can't remember.) I questioned him on what would happen if there was an emergency, as CNA training doesn't prepare you to handle those type of situations. He told me that all she does is call the parents if the kids get sick, and other than that give them Band-Aids or juice/snacks if they feel weak and allow the kids to lay down. He said her job was pretty laid back, and she really enjoys it and the salary increase that comes along with being a nurse.

I thought maybe he was lying about her working as a nurse having never attended nursing school of any kind, and asked another friend's little sister who attends that middle school (in 8th grade) who their new school nurse was. The little girl described her and even said my friends sisters name, so I pulled up a picture of her and asked the little girl if that was her and she replied that it was.

I'm a little shocked how this is even legal and honestly quite annoyed as I am busting my butt in school while others can claim and even get hired as a "nurse" without working for that title. Her name badge even has RN on it. Am I over reacting?

The local CNA school in our town that me and his sister went to is 1 week of training (ADL's, BP, simple tasks) and then we are allowed to test to become certified for the state of FL. All I can think of is that this situation would be a disaster if one of those children had a major health problem and that our 1 week CNA training clearly doesn't cut out to handle those situations.

We live in a very small town, and who you know does pull more weight than what you know. This same family got their cousin hired on as a paralegal without ever attending school, although I know nothing if on the job training is offered in place of schooling for that.

Any insights on this?

[caliotter3]

If you are certain of the facts in this case, (and even if you just suspect), feel free to report this person to your state's Board of Registered Nursing. Don't stop there. Find out the next level for the school, probably the school district, and report the school for their part in the fraud. The children at the school deserve better than they are receiving.

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

It seems a little odd that you just happened to "run into" an old friend and all this followed--i.e. interrogating him on his sister. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it seems like maybe there was a festering issue here that existed before you ran into this person.

Regardless, I would send the school (and CC the school district) a letter indicating the illegality of the situation with quotes of relevant state laws. I would also contact you state's BON and notify them of the situation.

[schnookimz]

I would report this to the school board immediately.

But what sort of terrible school would even hire a "nurse" without requesting a copy of her nursing license??? I mean that's ridiculous.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Many schools hire non licensed personnel as health-assistants, or some such random UAP title.

It seems entirely possible to me that this woman's brother and that kid are calling her the "school nurse" simply because the great majority of the general public has little conception of what a nurse actually is.

All of your information seems to be secondhand. The brother said she said that she enjoys the pay increase that comes with the nurse job. Well, okay, but do you really know she used the word nurse? Maybe she didn't, and her brother is just using the word cause that seems to be what he thinks his sister is. And we can't possibly expect a young child to grasp the difference between a nurse and a UAP.

And you said she has RN on her badge. Yes, if she really does that's clear fraud if she is not a RN. But I get the impression from your post that you have yet to lie eyes on her yourself. Are you just assuming she has RN on her badge? Did someone explicitly tell you that she does?

Basically, you need to make sure this isn't a case of the school hiring non-licensed people as healthcare aide-ish workers before you accuse anybody of anything.

[Heaven-Leigh]

It seems a little odd that you just happened to "run into" an old friend and all this followed--i.e. interrogating him on his sister. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it seems like maybe there was a festering issue here that existed before you ran into this person.

Regardless, I would send the school (and CC the school district) a letter indicating the illegality of the situation with quotes of relevant state laws. I would also contact you state's BON and notify them of the situation.

Living in a town that is small enough to not have a mall, movie theater, or Walmart/Target and only about 3 grocery stores in the entire town, running into people isn't uncommon by any means. I did seem to interrogate him about his sister, as it just didn't make sense to me how that would even be possible. (And that I am nosey) We are still friends as I am with his sister, however due to conflicting schedules (his full time work schedule and my full time school schedule) have not really been in touch for about a year or so. There are no previous issues. Being that he was such a close friend, I had no problem questioning him for information. I like his sister, but I do not agree with being able to be a nurse without going through the proper training. I kind of assumed getting hired as a nurse would include you giving your license number and sending that paperwork off somewhere, (when I was hired as a CNA, they copied my certificate number and drivers license) so her getting hired made no sense to me as she does not have a license number & I figured school jobs would be stricter. Hence, all of the questioning.

I don't really understand what to say to the school or who in the school to contact. I'm sure a quick google search would provide me with the middle schools number, but who would I talk to? Is there a specific person? I'm also very young, graduating high school just a few years ago and am not sure if I would be taken seriously if I left a complaint. As far as the BON, I could contact them but would it be anonymous? As I said, my friends family and I have no issues, and reporting her would certainly open a can of worms towards a family I like. However, I feel tugged two ways, as I know this situation is not safe either and then ethical issues kick in so I feel like I should say something. I came here just looking for advice, or some sort of direction.

[Heaven-Leigh]

Many schools hire non licensed personnel as health-assistants, or some such random UAP title.

It seems entirely possible to me that this woman's brother and that kid are calling her the "school nurse" simply because the great majority of the general public has little conception of what a nurse actually is.

All of your information seems to be secondhand. The brother said she said that she enjoys the pay increase that comes with the nurse job. Well, okay, but do you really know she used the word nurse? Maybe she didn't, and her brother is just using the word cause that seems to be what he thinks his sister is. And we can't possibly expect a young child to grasp the difference between a nurse and a UAP.

And you said she has RN on her badge. Yes, if she really does that's clear fraud, if she is not a RN. But I get the impression from your post that you have yet to lie eyes on her yourself. Are you just assuming she has RN on her badge? Did someone explicitly tell you that she does?

Basically, you need to make sure this isn't a case of the school hiring non-licensed people as healthcare aide-ish workers before you accuse anybody of anything.

That could be entirely possible that she is a health assistant or UAP. And you are correct, I am just going off of information that her brother has told me. He is the one that told me her name badge has RN, and I have not personally seen her myself in about the same amount of time that I have seen him (roughly a year.) The only way to know for sure would be to go into the middle school and see her, but how strange would that be trying to just walk up into a middle school without having a kid that attends there. Your post seems to make a lot of sense to me, and I have a feeling that is what it really is. I had no idea that schools utilized UAPs instead of nurses, so I think that is what this situation is. Thank you.

[Heaven-Leigh]

When in doubt, ask allnurses :)

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Here are excerpts from a job posting in MD for a position that I'm betting is like the one we're talking about here:

DESCRIPTIONThe School Health Assistant, under the supervision of the Cluster School Nurse and the school-basedadministrator, provides school health services to students, staff, families and school visitors. The School HealthAssistant works in a collaborative relationship with the cluster school nurse. The School Health Assistant worksas a team member using good judgment according to health services policies and procedures. Performance isevaluated periodically.

MINIMUM EDUCATION, TRAINING AND EXPERIENCEHigh school graduate or equivalent and current certification in cardio-pulmonary resuscitation (CPR), first aidand certification as a nursing assistant (C.N.A.). Successful completion, at the time of interview, of the MarylandBoard of Nursing required math and reading pretest for medication certification (passed with a minimum of 70%accuracy)

[proud nurse, BSN, RN]

Heaven-Leigh,

Asking questions is a good thing. I find it irritating when people either lie about their title, or don't bother to correct people when they think they are something different. When I was an LPN and people assumed I was an RN, I quickly informed them that I was not an RN. I had a situation like this last month working with a CNA from an outside agency. She told me she actually was an RN. I asked her if she just graduated, she said she's been a nurse for years. I didn't want to seem like I totally didn't believe her, but I asked if she ever heard that you couldn't worked beneath your license (that's what we were told in nursing school). She said the agency knows she's an RN, but allows her to work as a CNA and pays her RN wages. Well, at this point I thought she was lying.

Using the name that showed up on the computer when she charted, I later looked her up on the state board registry...not listed as an LPN or RN, but was on the CNA registry. If this lady is truly an RN, getting paid RN wages and working as a CNA, then she's cleverly working the system. If she's a CNA telling people she's an RN, but not working in an RN capacity, that would be impersonating an RN. I went to my manager about it, but last week I saw her getting off the elevator when I was getting on. She's still coming to our hospital.

[caliotter3]

Any moral responsibility by the OP is satisfied by making an anonymous report to the BRN and the school board. She is not expected to know the employment status of licensed versus UAP employees at the school. Her question is a valid one. Allow the nursing board and the school district to sort this out.

[LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM]

I grew up in Florida, and we had a school "nurse" who, as I learned when I was older, was not a nurse at all. She didn't wear a name badge that said RN, and I don't remember if SHE ever referred to herself as a nurse, but that was what she was called. It must not be a requirement in FL to have an RN in schools. If she's deliberately misrepresenting herself, of course that's wrong. But it may be as BrandonLPN describes.