CNA duties vs. Nursing Duties

noc4senuf · Jun 4, 2008

All of my nurses know that you NEVER pass a call lite and they are just as capable of toileting someone as the CNA's. Yes, the nurses have work that the CNA's can not help them with BUT, a resident needing to use the bathroom is more important than any piece of paper. I answer lites when I am on the floor, I feed, toilet, you name it. I was a CNA back in the 70's and still am plenty able to still do the same work.

I interviewed an LPN several months ago for a noc shift position. She stated during her interview that she does NOT go on rounds, or change any resident as she was not trained for that. I told her it was expected of the nurse and she would not be hired. The interview ended there.

I could go on about this but, I think everyone gets the drift.

lolagurl · Jun 4, 2008

All of my nurses know that you NEVER pass a call lite and they are just as capable of toileting someone as the CNA's. Yes, the nurses have work that the CNA's can not help them with BUT, a resident needing to use the bathroom is more important than any piece of paper. I answer lites when I am on the floor, I feed, toilet, you name it. I was a CNA back in the 70's and still am plenty able to still do the same work.
I interviewed an LPN several months ago for a noc shift position. She stated during her interview that she does NOT go on rounds, or change any resident as she was not trained for that. I told her it was expected of the nurse and she would not be hired. The interview ended there.
I could go on about this but, I think everyone gets the drift.

If she says that at all her interviews she goes on I bet she's still looking for a job.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Jun 4, 2008

I'd love to see her attitude when she's on a floor with no aides. Poor patients.

We saw what happened when RNs didn't do their patient care because we were an all RN staff in some places. Patients went for days sometimes with no baths, no mouth care, no gown or linen changes. Those who were oriented would complain about it; those who were confused or in a coma couldn't tell us. The worst was no turning of the bed bound patients and that's when pressure ulcers started showing up in weird places. It was the first time I started seeing bedsores on ears, the backs of heads and elbows!

I've also worked in nursing homes over the years, often to earn extra money. I usually got put on the Medicare units. It is pretty well known by LTC nurses that patients often come to them from serious illnesses in the acute hospitals with some degree of skin breakdown. Now how does that happen? Hmm?

TazziRN, RN · Jun 5, 2008

One thing a few of the students said that ended up in their dismissal from certain hospital clinicals is when a nurse walked up to them one day and asked them to help with bed baths on the floor -- the students response "we are BSN students -- we do not do bed baths -- we assess and give medications."

A little off topic but in the same vein......when my daughter was in high school she played soccer. She loved the game but was on JV the whole three years. The coach had a policy that the kids boarded the bus descending order of class. After one game they were waiting in line and a couple of varsity freshmen were complaining about having to board last....."We should be first, we're varsity!" My daughter's friend turned around and said "Get a clue..........you're freshmen!!"

I hate people who think the title makes the person important........in my opinion the respect that comes with the title has to be earned.

semiller36545 · Jun 5, 2008

I once interviewed for a job in Staff Development at the LTC facility where I worked at the time. One of the things I wanted to implement was: one day of a new nurse's orientation would be spent shadowing a CNA and vice versa, because it was clear to me that neither group had any idea how the other spent their day. The DON actually laughed. Needless to say, I didn't get the job. That was also the day I knew I really couldn't work there much longer. If I do say so, I would have been good at that job.

joolia · Jun 5, 2008

Thanks everyone for your responses. It is good to know that I am not the only one that has picked up on this trend.

Unfortunately, I am starting to notice a pattern in the attitude of the LPNs at this facility. This seems to be a pretty common occurrance - LPNs turning a blind eye to call lights, ignoring residents when they ask for help. It is not even that they come and get one of us, they almost act as if they don't even see or hear the resident. It's really sad.

Luckily, we have an amazing new ADON, who is an RN/BSN. She leads by great example. She is definitely not above answering a call light and assisting a resident to the toilet if she is closet to it when it goes off. Or, if she stops by to talk to you while you are in a room making a bed, she will grab a corner of the sheet and help you out. I'm hoping that her positive example will help turn this place around.

At the very least, as many of you mentioned, it is giving me a perfect example of the kind of LPN/RN I do NOT want to be!!!!

KarynicaRN · Jun 6, 2008

I go to a lot of a facilities since im pool and i have to say...........its not the CNA's i see standing around chatting. I do have to say most of the nurses i ahve worked under have been great. but the last shift i worked the charge nurse was in the family room of my wing sleeping....

Sleeping? I have never in my years as a RN slept while I am on duty. I immediately fire anyone caught sleeping, it's policy.

Not the CNA's standing around? Have you been to facilities that I do my clinicals? That I teach at? or that I have worked at? Not all facilities are the same.

I teach nurse assistants to be good nurse assistants and I still have those that want to sit in my class and text or even take calls during class. I never have had a problem with a nurse texting at work or in a clinical setting. It has always been the cna who is hiding in a linen closet or in a residents freshly made bed sleeping or texting. I keep an eye on the cna's because IT IS MY JOB. I am responsible for their actions.

I was a nurse aide back before you had to be certified. I never treated the nurses like they were second class citizens.Have you ever watched as a cna threw a full cup of soda at another nurse across the nursing station and splattered the charts with soda? Have you had a facility where the cna carried a knife with them and threatened another cna with that knife, and as a nurse had to break up that fight and fire said cna? I have done it many times.

There are too many people that think that nurses don't do anything but talk behind the nurses station. How about going a full evening shift without a lunch break or a chance just to run to the bathroom without being called for an emergency? Do the cna's have to come running and be responsible? NO, it's the nurse who has to do the assessment, call the family, call the doc, etc.

And, as a nurse aide instructor, who do you think teaches these new students to turn residents, to feed them, to bathe them? to toilet them? IT'S ME! So...I believe that being said...I do more than push papers and a pen. I help our residents and patients because they NEED me. They are the reason we have jobs.

I am not trying to be mean, just trying to get my point across. Too many nurses are looked at as lazy and not doing their jobs.

MikeyJ, RN · Jun 6, 2008

Sleeping? I have never in my years as a RN slept while I am on duty. I immediately fire anyone caught sleeping, it's policy.

This is off the main topic but had to respond about nurses sleeping. I work graveyard shifts as a nurse apprentice and one time walked in on a CNA sleeping in a toddlers room with no parents. I told the charge nurse but nothing happened.

There is also a doctor in our hospital that has changed his computer background to a picture he took of an ICU nurse sleeping at the desk at night.

I don't think it is a regular thing for nurses to sleep but I have seen it.

I agree that they should be fired immediately.

rn2bnwi, BSN, RN · Jun 6, 2008

Sleeping? I have never in my years as a RN slept while I am on duty. I immediately fire anyone caught sleeping, it's policy.
Not the CNA's standing around? Have you been to facilities that I do my clinicals? That I teach at? or that I have worked at? Not all facilities are the same.
I teach nurse assistants to be good nurse assistants and I still have those that want to sit in my class and text or even take calls during class. I never have had a problem with a nurse texting at work or in a clinical setting. It has always been the cna who is hiding in a linen closet or in a residents freshly made bed sleeping or texting. I keep an eye on the cna's because IT IS MY JOB. I am responsible for their actions.
I was a nurse aide back before you had to be certified. I never treated the nurses like they were second class citizens.Have you ever watched as a cna threw a full cup of soda at another nurse across the nursing station and splattered the charts with soda? Have you had a facility where the cna carried a knife with them and threatened another cna with that knife, and as a nurse had to break up that fight and fire said cna? I have done it many times.
There are too many people that think that nurses don't do anything but talk behind the nurses station. How about going a full evening shift without a lunch break or a chance just to run to the bathroom without being called for an emergency? Do the cna's have to come running and be responsible? NO, it's the nurse who has to do the assessment, call the family, call the doc, etc.
And, as a nurse aide instructor, who do you think teaches these new students to turn residents, to feed them, to bathe them? to toilet them? IT'S ME! So...I believe that being said...I do more than push papers and a pen. I help our residents and patients because they NEED me. They are the reason we have jobs.
I am not trying to be mean, just trying to get my point across. Too many nurses are looked at as lazy and not doing their jobs.

Actually what I wrote is that most of the nurses i have worked under are great... meaning they work very hard. i find it frightening that you are training cna's since you don't appear to have very much respect or appreciation for their role. they too are an essential part of your team, and just like nurses they too deserve respect.

SaraO'Hara · Jun 6, 2008

So many of the nurses I work with will just page a CNA to a call light... not see if it's something that takes ten seconds...

There are some, however, that find the time to do all of their tasks and interface with the residents.

KarynicaRN · Jun 6, 2008

Actually what I wrote is that most of the nurses i have worked under are great... meaning they work very hard. i find it frightening that you are training cna's since you don't appear to have very much respect or appreciation for their role. they too are an essential part of your team, and just like nurses they too deserve respect.

Where do you get in my post that I don't appear to have respect for cna's? If you were to speak to my students and past students you would find they all think I am the best instructor they have had, and my evaluations from my students show this.

I find it hard that you could make such a post about me without even knowing me. As I stated in my previous post, I was a nurse aide before we had to be certified. I know how back breaking the work can be. I am walking physical proof. I have 3 slipped disks in my back, all from doing the hard work a cna does.

I am one of the few nurses you would be able to ask for my help to feed and pass trays. I help move people up in bed. I do anything that is asked of me. I am above no one. RN's, LPN's, CNA's, all work as a unit, a team. We have to work as a team or no one could get along. Perhaps you are just reading what you want to read out of my posts? Read the complete post before judging me.

SunnyAndrsn · Jun 6, 2008

Unfortunately, I think this is a pretty common attitude, but sometimes it's just perceived. I did not work as a CNA, however I'm not above toileting a resident, assisting with meals, ADL's, etc..when I have time to help. More often than not, I need to ask my residents to wait for a CNA. I hate to ask them to do so, but it happens.

Often, when nurses tell their CNA's "So and so needs to use the bathroom, or please change her blouse, etc" it can be perceived that the nurses are unwilling to do these tasks themself. More often than not, I'm in the middle of med pass, need to do an assessment, or need to give a PRN med...the list goes on. When I've got a client waiting for pain medication, or someone is short of breath and needs a neb, that has to take priority!

But I've also seen CNA's pass the buck! They get housekeeping to clean up a spill that could take less than a minute to take care of, call the kitchen for a cup of coffee, or go to the kitchen and say "Get this resident a cup of hot chocolate!". I get why at times the CNA's don't have time either, but just as often I've seen an attitude...

For the most part, my CNA's are fabulous, caring individuals who love our residents. It's a pleasure to work with them and to help them. When the "good ones" are working, the team just flows so nicely.

Yesterday, I had an inservice at work (LTC) and I sat next to a new LPN. (I'm a CNA.) During one of the breaks, we struck up a conversation, and I asked her where she had done her LPN. I also mentioned to her that I was currently in the lottery at the two local technical schools in our area to get into their LPN programs for the 08-09 school year, that I was considering taking a look at the private (and very $$$$) LPN school she went to, AND that I had an application in at the RN-ADN program at our local community college, which is very competitive selective admissions.
She asked me why I decided to become a CNA before LPN/RN, and I said, "Because I wanted an inexpensive, quick way to get basic training so I could get out in the healthcare setting, and see whether nursing was a good fit for me." (I'm a career changer.) and, that I wanted to learn the basic ADL stuff, and get that over with, so that I woudl feel that I had that part of it under my belt before I started NS.
Her response: "I didn't. I don't really see how CNA is relevant to being a nurse. I mean, you have to do all those things when you are in nursing school, (referring to ADLs) but you stop doing them as soon as you become a nurse."
I have noticed this type of attitude a lot since I started down this journey to go from corporate cube jockey to nurse. I've noticed it ith my LPN coworkers, and I have also noticed it a lot here on the boards. Is this a relatievly new phenomenon? Where are these new nurses picking this up? In school? Media portrayal of the nursing profession? What gives?