CIWA woes

Specialties Addictions

Published

I don't really have any complaint with the CIWA protocols, I am grateful they exist and enable me to sorta get a handle on the ETOH'ers when they decide it's time for withdrawal. It's a lovely thing. What I really dislike are the patients!

This is a vent and if you think I'm a horrible person, just think... there are probably people you don't like either. The pattern for me has been that when I show up to work, it's magically day 3 for this or that one and that means it's freak out night, they look fine for dayshift and by midnight it is ON like donkey kong. They are tied up, spitting, yelling, cursing, hallucinating, wriggling, doing all sorts of damage to equipment and themselves, and I am giving ativan every thirty minutes until they snore.

Sigh. It's so predictable. And not one of them ever has a different presentation when the DT's start, although some are more severe. No one wakes up nice a few days later. Nope, some of 'em put cheerios in their hair and ears when they have regained control of themselves. And you never know when you will go to do something simple to a properly medicated, snoring, limp patient and have all heckfire and brimstone erupt. No matter how much you bathe them, the stench is amazing. Also you can't actually bathe them until you have medicated them into a somnolent state. While they are wiggling, they are gonna be icky because of the safety factor. I need my skin intact, thanks.

I dislike people who have gotten themselves into this mess by deliberately ingesting poison for years on end. It gets you drunk, yes, that is how you know it's poison. That's your liver working overtime to get the crap out of your system. There are folks that just don't care, about life or other people, or apparently about the humiliating extremes that they can wind up in when it all goes south either. Most of these folks have relatives that would have a duck if they saw the stuff their loved one gets into, and since ICU doesn't have a rubber room, they are restrained while going through the worst of it. I would be horrified to see a loved one in that situation, maybe that's one reason I choose not to surround myself with alcoholics. I do not understand this patient population, and to be honest, I don't like them either. Ok rant is done.

Specializes in Emergency Nursing.

Wouldn't nursing be so much easier if patients could die less irritatingly?If they could just be a bit less inconvenient to us?

How annoying it is that the patient in 7 wants to get his life together, wants to make the effort to NOT make poor choices anymore. Or even if he's here just to detox, having been brought in by the police or concerned family members, wouldn't it be more convenient for us if they just didn't? If he just didn't come here at all? If he could just go somewhere and tough it out? And if he dies (yes, a person can die from ETOH withdrawal), well, at least I wont have to deal with it, and, after all, it's his own fault anyway.

/sarcasm

How dare you sit in judgment. Who are you to judge these people? There but for the grace of god...

I'm with you on everything OP.

I also hate "How dare you" posts - sign of lack of experience. Funny how it all changes with the first bloody nose. Heh.

By what? Working in an occupation that is full of patients who make choices that are less than desirable? ETOH addiction doesn't hold the exclusive rights.

And Netglow.....lots of experience, I happen to like addictions nursing.....

It takes all kinds and experiences. If you don't want to deal with the good the bad and the ugly, then I am not sure what kind of a job one could tolerate working.....

Eh, I don't mind the detoxers. At least we have CIWA protocols now. To me they're like all my other pts who have contributed significantly to their poor health and shortened life span. I don't get ruffled over them (though I can certainly understand it), I figure most everyone could be living better than they are, myself included. COPDers, CHFers, diabetics, and others who have been unhealthy and noncompliant for years don't really disturb me, either.

Years and years of treating these people has made me realize that whether I get my panties in a wad or not, makes no difference. I can worry, cray, cajole, rage, fret, and pray, but in the end, I'm only responsible for doing my job. I can't chenge most people, and I refuse to bear their burdens. I will give then good care and a smile, and support when they tell me they're quitting drinking, smoking, eating at McDonalds this time. Even when I know 99.9% of the time it's absolute crap. It's no skin off my back one way or another, so I might as well take them at their word.

Sorry for all the typos. I have fat old fingers.

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Lets move this to addictions nursing.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

OP.....I sounds like you have had bad few shifts. I hope you feel better. There was a time when we as professionals that we didn't try to cure everyone. We had orders for a cocktail or two.....or used alcohol drips to help them while they were under our care. Alcohol is an addiction....like any other addiction. whether from food, drugs, sex, pets, or alcohol. It is a chemical response that they really have no control over. Some people DT and some will not.

Some act crazed and others do not. I think the was they are snowed with Ativan disturbs their psyche and they wake up combative and confused. I think now that we try to help them by taking away the alcohol....I have seen an increase of these crazed individuals. While they suck up a ton of our time.....we still need to have empathy for their plight. But I do feel your pain.

To the poster asking about CIWA....Clinical Institute Withdrawal Assessment for Alcohol Appendix A—Pharmacotherapy - A Guide to Substance Abuse Services for Primary Care Clinicians - NCBI Bookshelf

That utilize standard assessment criteria and medication protocol. Appendix C—Screening and Assessment Instruments - A Guide to Substance Abuse Services for Primary Care Clinicians - NCBI Bookshelf

With standardized orders.....http://www.reseaufranco.com/en/assessment_and_treatment_information/assessment_tools/clinical institute withdrawal assessment for alcohol (ciwa).pdf

Specializes in Emergency Nursing.
I'm with you on everything OP.

I also hate "How dare you" posts - sign of lack of experience. Funny how it all changes with the first bloody nose. Heh.

Yeah, "how dare you" is a bit dramatic, but I was struggling to capture my utter disdain for nurses who pass judgment on their patients. I'm not a 22 year old kid, I am a new nurse yes, but I am looking down the barrel of fifty and I can say with absolute certainty that I will never do this.

Yes, this makes me better than you.

Specializes in Emergency/Cath Lab.

I dont mind detoxers. Although the floors I send them to hate me :D

If you go to any colonized country, South Africa for example, the health disparities are huge between the classes. It is not a coincidence that more people who have had their culture and families torn apart have more social/medical problems.

These are you patients, they have an illness, sorry their ilness if so distastefull to you.

Specializes in ICU.
Eh, I don't mind the detoxers. At least we have CIWA protocols now. To me they're like all my other pts who have contributed significantly to their poor health and shortened life span. I don't get ruffled over them (though I can certainly understand it), I figure most everyone could be living better than they are, myself included. COPDers, CHFers, diabetics, and others who have been unhealthy and noncompliant for years don't really disturb me, either.

Years and years of treating these people has made me realize that whether I get my panties in a wad or not, makes no difference. I can worry, cray, cajole, rage, fret, and pray, but in the end, I'm only responsible for doing my job. I can't chenge most people, and I refuse to bear their burdens. I will give then good care and a smile, and support when they tell me they're quitting drinking, smoking, eating at McDonalds this time. Even when I know 99.9% of the time it's absolute crap. It's no skin off my back one way or another, so I might as well take them at their word.

Well put, of course no one "likes" the ETOH population, they are downright obnoxious, but how is it any different than the people not taking care of themselves wether it be they, smoke, compulsively eat, bla, bla bla. Yeah we see em again and again, but we see the same diabetics, come back to have another limb lopped off, the same CHF'er with a 20% EF who still feels the need to go to McDonalds every day. Im here to take care of em, I may roll my eyes at them (behind closed doors) at the choices they continue to make, but it is what it is, we would have jobs otherwise.

Specializes in Critical Care.

Wow! Looks like you stirred up a hornets nest! How dare you not want to deal with a swearing, cursing, hitting patient! Give me a break! I don't care why a person is altered, dementia, etoh, drugs, bipolar, whatever! Most of us didn't go into nursing expecting to work in a psych ward and worry about being physically attacked by some altered mental status patients. It is dealing with people like this that is a major factor of burnout in nursing! It's ridiculous for you to be offended that someone doesn't like dealing with drunks. A normal person would not want to deal with this. Sorry the CIWA protocols don't fix the situation, many of these people should be on an ativan drip, not allowed to remain as agitated and combative as they are!

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