Circumcision Debate

[steve brock]

Hi all. Our HealthGate topic of the week is a debate about circumcision. Is it a minor operation, (endorsed by the American Academy of Pediatrics) that improves cleanliness and that a baby doesn't feel or an unethical mutilation, with no medical basis, that has long-lasting effects

[Q.]

Originally posted by Russ Dowling

What about the practice among some African tribes of circumcising girls by removing part or all of the privy parts? Is that mutilation? It's part of their initiation into adulthood.

This practice among African tribes, as I have stated in another post, is done purely for humiliating purposes; to deprive the woman of any sexual enjoyment. These females "circs" are done in public, on the ground, with a dirty knife. Quite the different practice compared to here, where in the United States we are removing a piece of skin, not the entire sex organ, and it's done under safe, sterile technique, with the benefit of reviewing the current literature on pain control for neonates. Also, circs are optional here; in Africa they are forced. I don't see any comparison.

[BrandyBSN]

LOL, you actually DO THAT? Dear God, i thought you were joking.

[Q.]

Ok you two. I have quite the potty mouth and mind but for the life of me I cannot tell what in the world you are talking about. WHY would you be putting lidocaine inside a condom? Umm like what is the point???

And...."laying a round of pipe"???????

Cute, very cute.

[Q.]

I suppose it would prevent "premature" ejaculation seeing as you can't feel a damn thing with lidocaine slathered all over your "member!"

I didn't realize preemies was such a problem for your gentlemen.

[fergus51]

I completely agree with you Susy K that FGM is horrific, but I have to defend the women who put their daughters through this because they aren't doing it to humiliate. They are doing it to ensure their daughter stays a virgin in order to preserve her reputation so she'll be able to get a husband. It's absolutely sick and I don't think it is the same as circumcision in any sense either. That's why activists stopped calling it female circumcision and started calling it female genital mutilation. Totally different topic. The only question that can relate the 2 together is: Would you allow FGM if it was done in a sterile hospital room like you allow circs? I think it's a pointless comparison.

[kennedyj]

Haven't had too much trouble being limp for a day. But after using lido she is usually too sore the next few days anyway. It is not something you use all the time. Its just an impression builder. Just a toy in the black bag 'a tricks. A friend of mine would put on a member and girth extension in the darkwhen he was with a new girl so she couldnt see what he was doing. But I think he just wanted to hurt 'em

I am a nice guy.

Wildtime88

- I would be afraid of buying preloaded ones- wouldn't it make the woman numb too.

BrandyBSN

- you are a student so it is OK that you don't know about this. You are in the phase of learning new things. Explore and be explored

:)

FMG- is barbaric. I've read they usually leave a lady partsl hole the size of a wooden match head. Just big enough to pee out of. The woman will no longer have orgasms or feel what is normally felt. They say that sex is for bearing children and not for pleasure. I have heard that the first sex encounter is excrusiatingly painful.

[Tim-GNP]

All I can say is you would have your answer if you ever tried to reduce a phimosis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT a pleasant task for the nurse or patient.

[askater11]

I'm a cardiac nurse, but I had a 59 y/o patient yesterday that needed a circumcision. The gentleman origionally came into the hospital for the circumcision but, due to pre-op tests that he had stenosised arteries.

Anyway, the patients foreskin was swollen and constricting blood flow. I was wondering if anyone had a patient that needed a circumcision as an adult? How painful the circumcision as an adult compared to as a child?

By the way, both of my son's were circ'd....the Dr. used local anesthetic....

Just curious.

[jamistlc]

Greetings All,

I thought as we are community leaders and educators that we should take a stand on some issues, this is one of them! Male circumcision and female circumcision (fGM) need to be abolished as standard practices here and abroad. Even though a Doula in theory does not have issues with traditional birth and rites of passages, this has to be the exception as it has a medical foundation that supports this practice to end.

I am talking specifically about (fGM) as presented in this excerpt of an article referenced below. In addition the American Academy of Pediatric Physicians says that male circumcision as no medical base in fact. Both are archaic practices that the newborn or child has to endure for social and parental demands as a norm.

http://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/inter/fgm.htm

The Universal Childbirth Picture Book/CBPB - with Additions to prevent Excision and Infibulation were developed in support of the WHO seminar recommendations by Women's International Network. The CBPBs in English, French and Arabic are distributed all over Africa. Recently a Somali translation was published. More than 70,000 of these graphic teaching materials have been distributed in Africa

Women's International Network is distributing free CBPBs to local Community and Women's Groups, Clinics, Midwifery Schools and Training Programs all over Africa to all who are willing to work for the eradication of FGM. This successful grass roots program, which is regularly reported in WIN NEWS, urgently needs sponsors and support. Contributions to WIN are tax-deductible in the USA.

WIN NEWS/Fran P. Hosken, editor, 187 Grant St., Lexington, MA 02420-2126, USA. Tel: [phone], E-mail [email protected]

Female Genital Mutilation (FGM)

by Fran P. Hosken

"150 MILLION GIRLS AND WOMEN MUTILATED IN AFRICA-MIDDLE EAST

The number of mutilated women and girls in Africa and the Middle East is increasing steadily due to population growth, according to the latest estimates published by WIN NEWS. But internationally financed population, health and safe motherhood programs ignore Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and have failed to implement effective preventive education.

The mutilation most often performed is Clitoridectomy or Excision - cutting off, without anesthetic, the privy parts and most of the external genitalia. This is practiced in a broad area from the Red Sea to the Atlantic Coast. The most dangerous operation, Infibulation or Pharaonic Circumcision, is customary in Sudan, Somalia, Northern Kenya, parts of Ethiopia and all along the Red Sea Coasts as well as in West Africa in parts of Mali and adjoining areas. After the privy parts is excised and all external genitalia are carved away, the bleeding raw edges of the large lips are held together by thorns or other fastening devices - until a scar forms to close the entrance to the lady parts. The legs of the little girl are tied together for several weeks until the wound heals; a tiny opening is created by inserting a splinter of wood - to allow urination. Thus virginity - which is considered especially important by Moslem men - can be proven before the bride price is paid to the father.

These dangerous operations result in permanent health damage: hemorrhage and shock, which may be fatal; many infections including tetorifice, scarring which obstructs normal childbirth and may result in death of both mother and baby; infertility due to infections....."

This is a medical procedure that has no research based rationale for it to occur anymore. It is a medical tradition that I think needs to stop being practiced on both genders and those who can not defend themselves from this insult!

Peace,

Have a Blessed Day,

James (Jami) Ullman, LPN, Doula

"During Childbirth pain is recognized as physiological and not pathological and therefore pain may not be a bad thing." - unknown

"I am grateful to be connected to my inner sense of the 'rightness' of natural homebirth, but I find it totally bizarre that I have to become a modern-day Joan of Arc to accomplish that goal."

- Piper Allan Severns

[Q.]

Just a slight suggestion for you gentlemen: perhaps you aught to try, just maybe, not using any type of enhancing "devices" or slathering liquids all over your memberes; you might be pleasantly surprised as your partner may enjoy you "as is."

Speaking as a woman who is cursed with small anatomy, bigger and longer is not necessarily better.

[Russ Dowling]

It is my humble opinion that ANY non-consensual alteration of human genitalia that is done for any other reason than some necessary form of medical treatment is mutilation. I applaud the AAPP's stance on circumcision.

[Russ Dowling]

Suzy, I think if you told men to put Peanut Butter on their memberes, Jelly in their hair, and to play the Sousaphone during sex to make it better, they'd break their necks to do it!