Circumcision Debate

Q. · Jul 26, 2001

JenniferJ-

Can we stick to the topic at hand and avoid the sarcasm?

Thank you.

BrandyBSN · Jul 26, 2001

It would be very easy to avoid sarcasm if when someone voices an opinion, we take it worth what it is, an opinion. Making personal attacks doesnt help anyone feel free to converse. If you dont agree with something someone says, tell us why, and back up your opinion. Debate the OPINION, not the integrity of the poster.

Thank you,

Brandy

delirium · Jul 26, 2001

I have seen this in many online forums... conversing online omits many of the nuances of everyday speech such as tone of voice, facial expressions, etc, and we often take offense to something that would not be offensive otherwise.

Of course, there are times when you feel personally attacked, and cannot help but take offense. In that case, I personally would step back rather than perpetuate the negativity, but that is me, and I am not everyone. I do not expect everyone to react the same way I would.

I have not contributed to this thread because I have nothing to contribute. I am a woman, a lesbian, I have no male sons, nor a male partner in my life. I have seen, recently, many older patients coming in for circs due to phimosis later in life, but I don't really have an opinion one way or another.

I am not about to tell people how to behave or how to respond, and I don't think it wise for others to do so.

Take care all,

MsP

nar-S · Jul 26, 2001

as i had mentioned before...circumcision in many people is a matter of culture, religion, and personal belief...in my native country, males are cirred not when they're newborn but when they reach the age of pre-adulthood (age 12-14)...they do these on their own will and sometimes even remind their parents that it's time...in a way it's their sense of passage...i wonder for those parents who didn't have their sons cirred, would you allow them to have the procedure (at around that age) if they ask for it ???

fergus51 · Jul 26, 2001

That's interesting nar-s. Do you mind my asking where you are from? I think most people couldn't argue with letting adults be circumcised. Teens, I don't know. In any case, no one is stopped from being circed here. I do know an older teen (about 17) who got it done for religious reasons. It must hurt more at that age though doesn't it?

I think I am squeamish about any type of pain!!

Papa · Jul 27, 2001

Why we didn't circ our son:

1.) A shared belief betwixt the two of us that (barring overt and immediate health threats) the way we came out is the way we ought to be, i.e, we participate in a minimum of shaving, scenting, piercing, painting, tattooing, etc.

2.) Informal doctor poll: Urologist: "There's no medical reason for it. There is of course a slight increased chance of balanitis but it is easily treated. And the circumcised member is more aesthetically pleasing...(!!?!). But as a physician I can't strongly recommend it...but of course I circ'd my boys...(!!?!). OB/GYN: "There's no medical reason for it. We didn't circ our sons, and they haven't had any trouble (they go to public junior high/high school). In fact I think the may even be in the majority!"

3.) Baby does not need to "look like Papa". I think we would quickly tire of glueing on the little tuft of pubic hair! Not to mention the dark hair that covers most of my body, especially my face. Are we to dye baby's blond hair to match Papa's? We are all different and we all change (some of Papa's hair is gray!).

4.) This is going to sound very strange but it is true: My exposed glans is VERY sensitive to chafing when running/cycling etc. In winter it is not a problem (cold=everything retracts), but in the hot 6-month Texas summers there have been many times when I have wished for a nice covering of skin...

5.) If our son really wants/needs to be circ'd later we will discuss it. If our daughter wants/needs breast augmentation or reduction we'll discuss that, too. Case by case, based on medical necessity and/or intensity of desire. I doubt if the prospect of pain will factor in very much. The foreskin itself is not particularly sensitive, we have pain medication, and besides kids seem to be able to weather purposeful piercings, tattoings, and of course accidental broken bones, road rash, etc. without too much lasting emotional trauma.

It was not an "easy" decision--we thought about it a lot. But without an overriding, clear cut medical, cultural or religious rationale we decided against it. Time will tell...we may wish we had decided differently...but we tried to separate information from emotion and based our decision accordingly, as we always strive to do.

Papa

nurs4kids · Jul 27, 2001

Jennifer,

What do you want me to say?? You want me to agree with you? A BB is about debate, honey. Just as you have a right to post your opinion here, I have a right to post mine. Do you not feel that by saying 'parents who have their sons circ'd are teaching the child from day one that they will not protect them' you are offending anyone? I am a huge patient advocate and in pediatrics, that not only includes the patient but also the parents. I stand behind my original post that basically says you should not push your personal beliefs on patients, especially through guilt. They should be give scientific OBJECTIVE date, and nothing more. I'm sorry you feel so attacked. I can see we are getting no where with this, so I will quit responding to the "personal issues" and stick to the topic. I'm sure with all your accomplishments and experience you will make a wonderful nurse. Good luck!

nar-S · Jul 27, 2001

furgus51...i'm originally from the philippines and based from our culture and religion, cirring is a must. i'd assisted in performing a cirring procedure and it was treated as a minor surgery, with local anesthetic. the only pain they felt was the injection itself. it was the humiliation of getting cirred on a later age that gets our male patients embarassed .

fergus51 · Jul 27, 2001

Thanks for the reply nar-S. I have never had to circ a man and never plan to!!! A little too much for me. I can't imagine getting it done at an older age like that. Man! I am glad I am a female:D

jenniferj · Jul 28, 2001

Nurs4Kids:

Every reply you have made, including your last, has had a condescending tone, implying that I could not possibly be worth listening to, while your opinion must be correct.

You have not quoted me correctly once.

Your replies have shown over and over that you did not even correctly read what I wrote.

SuzyK: You started it. It was also your opinion that I originally disagreed with. Fight your own battles, instead of playing the nasty little comments game.

BrandyBSN: Thank you and I will try to take your advice to heart.

RNed: Thank you for some excellent advice. You sound like a person who I could learn good things from. Tell your wife I envy her, even if she does think you are "special".

I truly believe that ALL information about circumcision should be presented to parents in an unbiased way. What I was hearing was that if a person had a "pro" opinion, they were presenting information biased in that direction, with the opposite also being true. I know that there are cultural and religious reasons for everything, not just circumcision. But we are also thinking beings, able to make decisions based on new (and perhaps better) information. I still say that just because someone else does something does not mean that we have to do it. Billions of male children have not been circumcised, and yet gone on to live long, healthy, happy lives. With good hygiene, which they have been taught from a young age, I hope that my three boys will be among them.

RNPD · Jul 28, 2001

I personally am for circing, having seen firsthand in my practice what ravages are caused by infections,phimosis, & penile cancer. Older men often just don't have the dexterity, coordination, know-how, or intellectual ability to keep themselves scrupulously clean, leading to problems best avoided in the first place.

jenniferj, I think you are confusing opinions with attack. Naturally, we respect your opinion that circumsicion is barbaric to you and you therefore chose not to have your sons circed. But to say " And maybe you think they won't ever remember the pain that was caused for them, but you are talking about trust vs. mistrust, and what a way to teach them from day 1 or 2 that mom will not protect them.", is an attack on the beliefs of others who disagree with your opinion. Would you like to hear that if one of your sons develops a penile disorder at the age of 40 requiring an unpleasant intervention, he will hate you as his mother forever because he was not circed? Of course not, that is an attack, not an opinion. When we are speaking professionally, our opinions must be colored by fact, any off the wall comments can not be taken seriously. And to say that a newborn will learn that his mom won't protect him because he is circed is off the wall. When your little ones got their heels stuck for PKU testing, did they think that mom let this happen and I will never forgive her? How about if your 2 y/o needs a T&A? Or your 10 y/o develops a hernia needing surgical intervention? Do you see what I am getting at? Your implication was that those of us who chose circs are bad parents, forever coloring our kids lives with vague feelings of fear that we will not protect them. I think that's what nurs4kids took exception to, as did I when I first read it.

fergus51 · Jul 28, 2001

OK, you all, I finally found a reason I would consider circs to be beneficial. I was helping get a man washed up for bed on a rehab floor and found out that the nurse (idiot) who washed him in the morning didn't pull his foreskin back down. What kind of nurse graduates without knowing how to wash a man properly?