Cheating in an FNP program

TammyG · Feb 11, 2015

She is not trying to get individuals thrown out of school, just change the way the tests are given to avoid others having an unfair advantage.

Loo17 · Feb 11, 2015

In a way the OP has already "said something" by specifying the school, program, and course.

zmansc, ASN, RN · Feb 11, 2015

Back in the 60s my father was finishing up his PhD, the MD students in the same classes were always bragging about having copies of the tests from years past, and knowing that the professor didn't change the test, etc. He came to distrust MDs from that point on. My point is you can say at this point in the game we should all be honest, but verification is always going to be required to keep humans from trying to skirt the rules (be it doping in cycling or cheating on an exam).

My program uses a 'remote proctor' service that records the student during exams and the student is monitored by a service that watches those videos and listens to the audio in case there is any cheating. It's far more secure than any exam I've taken in a classroom. For 'quizzes' anything goes except help from fellow students. Those are basically open book, do what you want, tests or assignments. Typically they ask for far more detailed answers that you can't get by goggling something, but would rather have to research the topic and assimilate information from multiple places to find the correct answer in those. The quizzes are much harder and require you to actually know the material in much more depth than the exams are IMHO.

It saddens me when I hear of programs that do not have more institutional control over how students progress in their program, I think it produces lower quality graduates who negatively impact our profession, just as my father is unimpressed with many MDs after his experience with them in his joint classes.

I had a similar situation in my ADN program. Several of the students were cheating, I even found the cheatsheet from one of them after the test, it had fallen out of her books or something. The professors took it and never did anything about it. They knew what was going on, and they allowed it.

I would not rock the boat, it's the job of the program to police the program. If they want to change it they will, if not, you bringing this information to them will do nothing but get you in the middle of it. I think you will be better served in the long run by worrying about yourself and your studies and performing up to your ethical standards, if you can sleep at night with your actions, then accept your grades and move on!

SHGR, MSN, RN, CNS · Feb 11, 2015

A couple thoughts here.

The students will get caught long before boards. If they don't know their patho, it will show in their clinical rotations and future coursework that builds on understanding the patho.

Another poster mentioned the school should have proctored exams when online.

Also, if the exam is just asking basic facts rather than some of the critical thinking and applying of those facts, then they are just assessing "google-level" knowledge rather than understanding. Think of Bloom's taxonomy - "remember" being the bottom rung. Understand, apply, analyze are the next steps. Test questions assessing the higher levels of learning are more difficult to cheat on in the manner these students are doing.

Once you understand the material, then sure in the clinical setting you have your references to look up, but you have to understand the concepts first.

These students will get caught eventually, possibly in a very embarrassing way, OP.

ThatBigGuy · Feb 11, 2015

OP, are you sure this is cheating? Is there wording in your syllabus or during lecture that forbid the use of open books and/or working together?

It would seem odd that if it were truly cheating, that the group would be bragging about it.

If it's not expressly forbidden, then it's not technically cheating. Perhaps you can bring it up with the professor, in private, in order to clarify whether or not the exam is open book and/or group study. If the professor says that's illegal, perhaps then bring up the fact that she should seriously consider some sort of online proctoring to discourage the group aspect.

If it's not illegal, get yourself a group of your own and use your book!

Psata · Feb 11, 2015

If the exam was un-proctored, who to say how many "other" students in the class or throughout the program cheated on their Exams. Honestly, do you think this or similar online schools really care if their student cheat? If they did, they would have put the necessary safeguards, in place to minimize cheating. Isn't it about the money for a lot of these schools? Now you know why a lot of employers will not hire students from Online NP Programs. BTW, are these exams time limited, which would mimnize these students looking up answers?

stickit34 · Feb 11, 2015

If it's blatantly cheating (as described by the syllabus or policies), I would definitely not join in the cheating. Make the most of the education you're paying for, even if it's tough. You will benefit from it much more in the long run as well as maintain your integrity, which is vital to becoming a provider to patients. You want to become the best provider possible for your patients, not take the easy route. Also, it will come back to haunt those students in their boards, just as it did for my fellow students in my BSN track who are not RNs.

nursemaple2 · Feb 11, 2015

I know it is a bummer but unless they bell the marks or always fail a certain percentage, it doesn't directly affect you. It is their funeral come board time. Good luck to you

mommy2anangel · Feb 12, 2015

Kind of scary to think that one day these people may be providers. I agree that they are only hurting themselves in the long run. I'm in this to help my fellow human being; therefore, it is important to me to actually learn the information. I would just keep working hard like you're doing and find satisfaction that you are probably learning more than they are. Good luck.

ClaraRedheart, BSN, RN · Feb 12, 2015

I was thinking that this was prereqs for a BSN or ADN program for a second... I took basic pathophysiology as a prerequisite before being considered for a BSN program. Nurse practitioner though?! Wow! I know that a LOT of the tests and NP schools are online now, but I wonder, as someone else has said.... how reputable future employers will consider your schooling in an interview. I did an online BSN course (except for clinical), but ALL of our tests were proctored, so you HAD to be highly self-motivated to succeed. It was hard for me, honestly. On our Senior 1 semester, one person in a cohort got a hold of the critical care test bank. After making straight A's on tests, and helping other students do the same by memorizing the question letter order (ABDCCDBA) the teachers wised up to the fact that it was strange that so many people were getting straight A's in one group, and decided to switch up the question order. Many in the group failed the exam and were kicked out of the nursing program after some research into WHY they failed after A's. If you do wrong, it will catch up with you eventually. I had SUCH a hard time in that class. I'd like to think that I would have been above the fray and said something had I known of shenaniganry going on, and would have NOT been tempted to cheat like most of that cohort was. God knows. I think that our profession requires honesty above the average though. Glad you're staying up there :)

ChronicSG · Feb 12, 2015

When students cheat on exams it's because our school system values grades more than students value learning, - Neil

greenerpastures · Feb 12, 2015

I was thinking the same thing Loo17. I hope Elise1180 isn't here real name - might have ticked off a lot of fellow cohort members. (Not that I condone cheating).